Went to the track Friday. What should I try next?

[Rebelrouser]

I made it to the track Friday night it was the 3rd time this year. The car is a 64 Belvedere. It weighs 3724 with me and 8 gallons of fuel. The engine is a 505 440source kit 10.75 to 1 compression Solid roller cam .631 lift duration @50 int 264 ex270 lobe seperation 110. Indy EZ heads from Porter Racing Heads. Factory style crossram with 2 750 eddie carbs. I have tried 2 different convertors first stalled 4200 2nd stalled 5100. The rear is a Dana 60 with 4:10 gears, 29.5 X 9 bias slicks SS springs and truck shocks. The car runs good doesn't miss or lay over. The first time out car was ill handling. So scaled car got corner weights set. Rebuild front end and got an alignment. The 2nd trip a Aug 4. The car ran good and straight. I made 6 passes I tried different air pressure in slicks ,launch RPM & shift RPM (5800 & 6000). The 60fts were 1.58-1.56 ET' 11.03-11.09 & MPH 120-121.This was over 5 hours and weather got cooler. The 3rd trip I changed convertor. The first pass launch RPM was 3000 shift 5800 trap rpm 6200. 60ft 1.588 1/4 et11.132 120.22 mph. 2nd pass 2,500 launch shift 5800 60ft 1.579 1/4 et11.088 mph 120.84. 3rd pass changed timing from 36 to 34 degrees launch rpm 2200 shift 6000 60ft 1.576 1/4 et11.083 mph 121.10. I'm trying to get solidly into the 10's. Not sure what to try next. My local track is done for year September 30 so I have one more chance this year. Thanks Mike

I raced a NSS car for many years a 64 Dodge, had an engine similar to yours just a little more compression, I got it to run low 10's BUT it weighed 3,400 pounds with me in it. And nothing I could do would make it go 9's until I changed the intake, it was like a governor. Cross rams run out of high-end power they are tuned for around 5,500 rpm. Converters are one of the keys, I found an old model J chrysler converter and the car just loved it compared to several others. Get creative and put the car on a diet.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Keep going to the race track and enjoy EVERY trip you make.
Just going will help your performance, and you have the opportunity to enjoy your car.
I did ALL the prep, best of everything I could think of, or was recommended by the forum, and had all of that installed by October 2020. Despite my best efforts, I NEVER got to take my car down the track again, and now I just had to sell it.
Make the most of every trip.

 

[64plymouth]

Keep going to the race track and enjoy EVERY trip you make.
Just going will help your performance, and you have the opportunity to enjoy your car.
I did ALL the prep, best of everything I could think of, or was recommended by the forum, and had all of that installed by October 2020. Despite my best efforts, I NEVER got to take my car down the track again, and now I just had to sell it.
Make the most of every trip.

WOW Sorry to hear that.

 

[biomedtechguy]

WOW Sorry to hear that.

Thank you. I had a really hard time dealing with what was that reality, and I regret the mistakes and choices I made that led me to being cornered into that situation,
BUT
I can assure you that there's nothing like losing a car that meant so much to me, that I worked so hard to plan out, to pay for, to get all that stuff bought and installed, and with the ultimate achievement (putting a 572 stroker in) being not that far off, and "POOF" it's gone...
I appreciate my friends on the forum for their support and my engine builder for his friendship and patience.
God willing, once I get myself out of the vulnerable position that put me in that corner, that kept me from enjoying what I had, I will get something to drop that 572 in.
Enjoy what you have every chance you get.

 

[64plymouth]

Thank you. I had a really hard time dealing with what was that reality, and I regret the mistakes and choices I made that led me to being cornered into that situation,
BUT
I can assure you that there's nothing like losing a car that meant so much to me, that I worked so hard to plan out, to pay for, to get all that stuff bought and installed, and with the ultimate achievement (putting a 572 stroker in) being not that far off, and "POOF" it's gone...
I appreciate my friends on the forum for their support and my engine builder for his friendship and patience.
God willing, once I get myself out of the vulnerable position that put me in that corner, that kept me from enjoying what I had, I will get something to drop that 572 in.
Enjoy what you have every chance you get.

Just remember one day at a time

 

[malex]

From where I’m at with your post it seems to me that it’s time for you to start looking deeper and removing more weight. That will put you into the 10’s IMO. A little more compression would sure help you too, curious what you’re running for head gasket thickness and deck height.

One thing to mention is that I always remembered DVW mentioning a place to save weight is in the steering column.

 

[64plymouth]

From where I’m at with your post it seems to me that it’s time for you to start looking deeper and removing more weight. That will put you into the 10’s IMO. A little more compression would sure help you too, curious what you’re running for head gasket thickness and deck height.

One thing to mention is that I always remembered DVW mentioning a place to save weight is in the steering column.

When I started building this car 24 years ago it was going to be a street car, so weight wasn't a concern. It had a 440 with a hyd cam and 3.23 gears. It was a good street car that I didn't drive. I have always been a wanna be racer so I decided to make it faster. At first 12's then 11's so I wanted mid10's. I removed the easy stuff seats, heater box, insulation etc. I 'am not an engine builder so when I was planning the new engine I talked different racers in person and on internet and was told this combo would do the trick. I think it is capable I just have to sort it out. In hindsight I would do things different. The head gaskets are fel-pro .039 thick deck height is stock RB with clean up pass. I value your advise you have a very nice car, so don't take this as me blowing off your advise. Thanks Mike

 

[malex]

When I started building this car 24 years ago it was going to be a street car, so weight wasn't a concern. It had a 440 with a hyd cam and 3.23 gears. It was a good street car that I didn't drive. I have always been a wanna be racer so I decided to make it faster. At first 12's then 11's so I wanted mid10's. I removed the easy stuff seats, heater box, insulation etc. I 'am not an engine builder so when I was planning the new engine I talked different racers in person and on internet and was told this combo would do the trick. I think it is capable I just have to sort it out. In hindsight I would do things different. The head gaskets are fel-pro .039 thick deck height is stock RB with clean up pass. I value your advise you have a very nice car, so don't take this as me blowing off your advise. Thanks Mike

——
All good. Many of us start out the exact same way with a street/strip engine. If you happen to have a head off though, take a check of your deck height. You may be able to slap a set of .027 cometic gaskets in. It would show up on the time slip. A few years back I went from .039 to .036 gaskets. Time slips went from a best of 10.45 at that time to 10.37’s from there on out. I ran a .001 deck.
But yep, you’re going to be stroking 10’s on your glass soon enough.

 

[64plymouth]

——
All good. Many of us start out the exact same way with a street/strip engine. If you happen to have a head off though, take a check of your deck height. You may be able to slap a set of .027 cometic gaskets in. It would show up on the time slip. A few years back I went from .039 to .036 gaskets. Time slips went from a best of 10.45 at that time to 10.37’s from there on out. I ran a .001 deck.
But yep, you’re going to be stroking 10’s on your glass soon enough.

I will check into that. I did not even think about that. I have tossed the idea around of pulling motor apart to change pistons and cam. But that is not in the budget this year

 

[64plymouth]

Well a little update. I got my 9in convertor back from PTC yesterday. I have to say great people to deal with (PTC) super nice and fast service. Sonny said my stall should be 5,000 but slip less down track. Installed Wilwood rear discs. Took off 11 in drums and exhaust and lost 74Lbs. I have new aluminum M/C coming along with new lighter front runners. Track opens the end of April can't wait

 

[64plymouth]

Made it out Friday.the weather was great! Had 9in converter in single 4bl Indy intake with a proform 1050 4150 style carb. Loss 101lbs over the winter. Took exhaust off, rear drums off disc brakes aluminum m/c and lighter front tires. Best pass was 10.60@126. I’m going to put crossram back on and see how much it slows down. The 60 foot was very inconsistent. I have to work on that.

 

[33 IMP]

Other than the1.53 outlier, the other three are within .015. Hardly wildly inconsistent.....
I'm guessing the quickest/fastest pass was the last one? (best air?).

 

[64plymouth]

I had 2 other runs that it spun 1.57 & 1.58 60 ft. Tried higher launch rom.

 

[Budnicks]

Made it out Friday.the weather was great! Had 9in converter in single 4bl Indy intake with a proform 1050 4150 style carb. Loss 101lbs over the winter. Took exhaust off, rear drums off disc brakes aluminum m/c and lighter front tires. Best pass was 10.60@126. I’m going to put crossram back on and see how much it slows down. The 60 foot was very inconsistent. I have to work on that.

View attachment 1658120

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View attachment 1658122

Congrats, on getting down in the mid 10.60's

weight off the nose will help, now too
scale the car, make sure its right
have you already moved the battery to the trunk ?
what ever weight you get off the nose
& put in the back is like double the effort

the thinner 0.027" Cometic head gaskets @malex mentioned
is a great idea too, bump that compression up a lil'
try & get a gasket with 'a bore diameter' closer to your actual diameter too
without getting into the combustion chambers
just some sweat equity & $200
Maybe a 1.6:1 rocker change (10% more lift across the board)
if you have the 'Valve to piston clearances' too
while its off (the heads) measure how far down in hole the pistons are,
(maybe shave a lil' off the heads too, if need be)
you can figure out the quench (you want in the neighborhood of 0.030"-0.040")
& what compression (& sized valve reliefs) you have that way too
sometime a lil' notch/valve sized bevel on the sides where the intake valve is
(you can sometimes use the gaskets as a guide, to not exceed or ask a machinist for tech)
on the outside of the bore, the intake valves side of the top of the cylinders,
helps valve/air cfm flow,
if it has big valves it can be shrouding the valves 'hampering potential HP' too

albeit the org. stock max-wedge cross-rams 'look cool' (awesome even)
but they rob a lot of power, potential...
I knew a couple guys, that went in the 9.70s with them, back in the 80s
in 3,500# cars with S/S springs 29x10" slicks & slant 6 torsion bars,
Rancho single adj. shocks
fiberglass hood & scoop sealed off to the carbs
fiberglass front bumpers & alum. bumper brackets
the manifold were extensively worked, a bunch of lil' tricks, they held closely secret
& they ran Holleys 660's (flowed like 725cfm ea.)
on 1/2" 4 port tapered phenolic spacers IIRC
'carbs jetted & set up for their combo'
the 2 Edelbrocks #1407 IIRC (AFB style) 750cfm, no matter what they tried
held them back especially in the 60ft time...

can you run a Trans-brake in your class ?
that will help a tone with converter stall & not pushing thru the front braks

keep chipping at it, you're going in the right direction
funny I never saw this thread before today

good luck

 

[64plymouth]

Congrats, on getting down in the mid 10.60's

weight off the nose will help, now too
scale the car, make sure its right
have you already moved the battery to the trunk ?
what ever weight you get off the nose
& put in the back is like double the effort

the thinner 0.027" Cometic head gaskets @malex mentioned
is a great idea too, bump that compression up a lil'
try & get a gasket with 'a bore diameter' closer to your actual diameter too
without getting into the combustion chambers
just some sweat equity & $200
Maybe a 1.6:1 rocker change (10% more lift across the board)
if you have the 'Valve to piston clearances' too
while its off (the heads) measure how far down in hole the pistons are,
(maybe shave a lil' off the heads too, if need be)
you can figure out the quench (you want in the neighborhood of 0.030"-0.040")
& what compression (& sized valve reliefs) you have that way too
sometime a lil' notch/valve sized bevel on the sides where the intake valve is
(you can sometimes use the gaskets as a guide, to not exceed or ask a machinist for tech)
on the son the intake valves side of the top of the cylinders, helps valve/air cfm flow,
if it has big valves it can be shrouding the valves 'hampering potential HP' too

albeit the org. stock max-wedge cross-rams 'look cool' (awesome even)
but they rob a lot of power, potential...
I knew a couple guys, that went in the 9.70s with them, back in the 80s
in 3,500# cars with S/S springs 29x10" slicks & slant 6 torsion bars,
Rancho single adj. shocks
fiberglass hood & scoop sealed off to the carbs
fiberglass front bumpers & alum. bumper brackets
the manifold were extensively worked, a bunch of lil' tricks, they held closely secret
& they ran Holleys 660's (flowed like 725cfm ea.)
on 1/2" 4 port tapered phenolic spacers IIRC
'carbs jetted & set up for their combo'
the 2 Edelbrocks #1407 IIRC (AFB style) 750cfm, no matter what they tried
held them back especially in the 60ft time...

can you run a Trans-brake in your class ?
that will help a tone with converter stall & not pushing thru the front braks

keep chipping at it, you're going in the right direction
funny I never saw this thread before today

good luck

My next upgrades are better shocks and fiberglass hood and ft bumper

 

[PRHeads]

Nice pick up

A little here……. A little there.
It all adds up.

 

[stage3]

I’m going to put crossram back on and see how much it slows down.

looking forward to that comparison...

 

[RemCharger]

looking forward to that comparison...

It would be good to weigh each assembly complete, so that difference could be evaluated as well

 

[64plymouth]

It would be good to weigh each assembly complete, so that difference could be evaluated as well

I weighed cross ram with carbs and linkage 51 lbs

 

[33 IMP]

I weighed cross ram with carbs and linkage 51 lbs

View attachment 1658676

Carb covers, .39 lbs? Lol.