What can be done with this 440 on the cheap?

[wyrmrider]

Sweet
I think they will have more torque- IDK about the compression in their 360's- now if they were 360 magnums...
remember cold air

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Yes, of course, just not sure if it would be worth the effort and cost. May be better off selling the 440 for $700 +/- locally and investing in a set of cylinder heads for the 360.

 

[wyrmrider]

One of our posters just needs a pan, put his cam in and find some exhausts to get on the road, oh an adapter for his OD how many vendors for those?
Take a good gander at those comp cam .904 vs 842 profiles
here are a couple of more for another vendor
256@006 202 @.050 .461 lift Mopar lobe
256@006 [email protected] .434 lift Chevy lobe same seat duration you loose a lot of area under the curve
[email protected] [email protected] .458 lift 6 more degrees to get about the same lift with a chevy lobe - the .200 duration would be less
I said to use the chevy lobe cam because he had it already- I would not go out and buy one- why shoot yourself in the foot?

 

[Paul_G]

do you have to shift down to go up even little hills?
any flat spots- how's it drive

With the 360 right now, I do not have to downshift out of OD to go up mild grades. It pulls well in OD. I did have to recurve the dizzy after installing OD. Timing was all in by by 1800 RPM. I had to move that out to 2500 to stop detonation when cruising at lower speeds in OD.

Think of what your RPM will be cruising down the highway what is it now with the 360

It will cruise at 70 MPH about 2300 RPM.

 

[wyrmrider]

so you should have no trouble curving a 440 people that do not dial in leave a lot on the table

 

[Paul_G]

What real funny is every time someone ask what can be done on the cheap. Ends up involving thousands of dollars and hundreds of extra hp. We all like to dream. Then reality sets in.

You got it!

I can use this 440 engine in stock motor home trim and gain little to no power over my well built 360 which makes about 300 HP. The conversion costs will be around $2500 alone. Power gain, zero. Not enough juice for the squeeze.

I can upgrade the motor home 440 with a cam and bolt ons, LT headers, air gap intake, Holley 3310, Aluminum TF heads. Power will go up to about 400 HP? Cost now including conversion is around $8000. Power gain about 100 HP.

Now just go a little more and put some pistons in it and power goes up how much? To maybe 500 HP or more based on some builds I have found. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=106687.0

How much will it cost to put pistons in it? Does it need machine work to change pistons on a good running motor? Can a piston change be done in my garage?

 

[rumblefish360]

Let me explain. The motor home 440 is still together in factory original condition, carb to oil pan, radiator fan to trans yoke. Looks to have never been apart, It's sitting on the floor in my garage as we speak. I put a scope in each cylinder, they look fine, All the plugs look good, just sooted up. This engine will run as it is. I am going to oil down the cylinders, turn the oil pump and pre lubricate the engine, then do a compression test this week. I expect it to run as it is.

My question is with just the cam change using the cam I have,
http://www.compcams.com/(S(4zffrf2i...mpany/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=705&sb=0
And reusing the heads, intake, and carb, along with TTI long tube headers, what kind of power should I expect?

Less power than the factory HP engine, a bit more than the mundane lo-pi engine.
That cam is smaller than the stock HP cam.

 

[wyrmrider]

If all the bores have their factory hone marks you can double check with a dial bore gauge
I've dingle ball honed several with the KP hyper pistons and I've had no problems with moly rings that others have reported
need some pistons that are about stock weight
or a blower
(I have access to toque plates and a CK10 but sometimes some people can'
rumble his cam has about the same lift as the magnum cam and will make more torque in a low compression motor
all the duration of the magum cam does is bleed off dynamic compression unless he really spins it up
you're only looking at 2 degrees smaller at .050
and it's more "intense"
would I buy a chevy cam- no
but it will work for him
will be interesting to see the benchmark and compare with the HR build of 400 Magnum
440 cam intake close 82 @.004 113lca
comp 256 54 @006 110lca
adjust the 82 to .006 the extra 20 degrees of intake close kills the 440 cam and the Magnum cam is even worse (for a low compression motor)
I dont have the .050 data on the comp
but the 440 closes 33 ABDC @.050 and the Magnum 39 ABDC

 

[wyrmrider]

Flat flank vs inverse radius
400Magnum's Crane is a
flat flank street roller 429”/.452” 260/[email protected] 204/[email protected] 115/127 @.200 (260 @.004 is shorter than 260 @.006 but as close as I could easily get
Inverse radius street hyd roller 490 [email protected] 208 128
Inverse radius street hyd roller 465 264 212 128
I R Street-strip- more spring 510 264 218 139

hyd Flat tappet to compare with [email protected] Crane HR
.458 lift [email protected] [email protected] 122 @200
.475 lift [email protected] [email protected] 126 @.200
but then you have to consider FT break in and I'd spring for EDM lifters with these

 

[wyrmrider]

OP might be some tips here for U
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...y-engine-running-right.150738/#post-910943934
says he has 9:1 and gets 165lbs compression

 

[Paul_G]

I did a compression test on it this week. Tuesday I squirted an ounce of Marvel Mystery oil in each cylinder, rotated the engine by hand and let it set. On Thursday I Hooked a battery to the starter and spun the engine over. Sprayed oil all over the place, and that Marvell oil stinks.

My readings are, #1 and #2 cylinders both had the lowest readings, about 150 PSI with 4 pushes of the pistons.

All the rest had readings from 165 to 185. I didnt expect that much compression PSI.

BTW the heads are 452's.

 

[wyrmrider]

that is a bunch for a stock late motor
Check your 452s for cooling holes next to the spark plugs- there is additional meat in the casting
Real Motor home heads have Inconel exhausts with hard chrome stems- Intakes are premium SIL-XB materiel also hard chrome (not flash) worth some bucks
do you think the missing compression is rings or valves? maybe valves since you put lube in the cylinders

 

[Paul_G]

The compression seems high to me. I expected a 7:1 compression motor to be in the 130 PSI range.

 

[wyrmrider]

I've used some custom Crower Cams including Magnum replacement and reverse rotation Corvairs (for VW)
Taking a look at a 90's catalog I was reminded that Crower recommends their Level 1 for under 8.5 compression and higher than 3.23 rear ends (that's higher ratio not numeric)
For a BBM they show shelf Level 1 from 186-200 @.050 [email protected] (so a 250 Crower same as Engle, is bigger than a 250 Comp and much bigger than a Crane at .004)
The short catalog grinds are all Chevy grinds and I've never used one-Crower used to be reasonable for their custom grinds from their extensive lobe list
but what I wanted to note is that for SBC they sold "Mushroom" hydraulics )put them in from the bottom- not just cheaters durations from 200 to 252
The 200 gave about .025 more lift than an .842 lifter design more for the greater durations THERE MUST BE A GOOD REASON THEM MADE THESE
If not a cheater we just bored the lifter bores out to MOPAR or FORD (where limited) size and saved on the bushings
We used to run General Kenetics mushroms (over 1" face) in the AMC- really work good but a PITA
But Bigger lifters work better than lifters

 

[BSB67]

I did a compression test on it this week. Tuesday I squirted an ounce of Marvel Mystery oil in each cylinder, rotated the engine by hand and let it set. On Thursday I Hooked a battery to the starter and spun the engine over. Sprayed oil all over the place, and that Marvell oil stinks.

My readings are, #1 and #2 cylinders both had the lowest readings, about 150 PSI with 4 pushes of the pistons.

All the rest had readings from 165 to 185. I didnt expect that much compression PSI.

BTW the heads are 452's.

I don't have a good explanation for your results, but possibly lifter bleed down, or the gauge. Not to be negative Nancy, it seems unlikely that the motor has higher compression pistons. I would be skeptical until you have something more definative

 

[Paul_G]

I will be get it running in the next few weeks. Then do another compression test.

 

[Paul_G]

Got the engine running. Sounds like a tractor... But it ran very well, no noises or smoke.

 

[myk r sanchez]

The compression seems high to me. I expected a 7:1 compression motor to be in the 130 PSI range.

Is that the compression ratio of a motor that reports that kind of PSI?

 

[Paul_G]

I am thinking this engine build project has to go one of two ways. Keep it on the cheap and be happy with sub 400 HP, or go all the way and stroke it to well over 550 HP.

Seems to me that spending money on good parts like heads, headers, intake, carb, cam and gears, oil pump, timing cover with water pump, and just the cost of the conversion along with machining and refresh parts will cost me a ton. I am getting close to the $9000 range. Spending a couple thousand more on a stoker kit and 600 HP is right around the corner.

I am going to have to re asses what direction I want to take.

 

[wyrmrider]

now that you have it running do a compression check and let's see where we are/ what we start with
maybe just run it