Which electronic ignition

[Geoff 2]

Cheap,

That Mallory coil will work perfectly & does not require a bal res. Connect as shown in post #26.

Depending on how far you want to go, both MSD & Summit make a GM 4 pin module that has an inbuilt adj rev limiter. The MSD # 83647 switches more current, 7.5 amps for a hotter spark, compared to about 5.5 amp for the stock module. Open you plug gaps to 0.060" to get all the benefits.

 

[Frank Mopar]

HEI coil. No ballast needed

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Cheap,

That Mallory coil will work perfectly & does not require a bal res. Connect as shown in post #26.

Depending on how far you want to go, both MSD & Summit make a GM 4 pin module that has an inbuilt adj rev limiter. The MSD # 83647 switches more current, 7.5 amps for a hotter spark, compared to about 5.5 amp for the stock module. Open you plug gaps to 0.060" to get all the benefits.

Thanks for all your help Geoff. I know the very basics of Chrysler ign, just that stuff plugs into things, and magic elf’s do some stuff, and your car runs lol. I knew nothing about gms hei.

IIRC Mallory went out of business a while ago. Then Holley brought the name back, but I’m pretty sure it’s all just renamed msd stuff.

If I’m not mistaken, Mallory was started in 1925 and was the first performance ignition company, and was a big name. Until 1972 when some white sands missile techs formed the MSD company

 

[RJRENTON]

Bob,

I am well aware of how ign systems work & probably knew before you did....

If you are actually following this thread, it is pretty obvious that the OP has little knowledge of ign systems, |so I just used generic industry terms to get the message across, rather than a long winded explanation that gets him no further advanced in his quest for a reliable ign system. I built my first crystal set when I was about twelve.

Perhaps the OP would benefit from a more accurate description and explanation of the differences between the two systems, rather than laboring with incorrect information, or in your words: "long winded explanations". As a teacher, when describing complex systems or systems in general, it is always best to use accurate descriptions. I, personally think that the age you built your first crystal set as absolutely no bearing on this or any subject, especially those that pertain to Mopar ignition systems. As as a former educator, knowledge is best transferred using accurate information and terminology. I really don't care whether you agree or disagree with my premise. And I'm reasonably assured, that I'm older and likely more educated.......just my opinion......
BOB RENTON

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Perhaps the OP would benefit from a more accurate description and explanation of the differences between the two systems, rather than laboring with incorrect information, or in your words: "long winded explanations". As a teacher, when describing complex systems or systems in general, it is always best to use accurate descriptions. I, personally think that the age you built your first crystal set as absolutely no bearing on this or any subject, especially those that pertain to Mopar ignition systems. As as a former educator, knowledge is best transferred using accurate information and terminology. I really don't care whether you agree or disagree with my premise. And I'm reasonably assured, that I'm older and likely more educated.......just my opinion......
BOB RENTON

He’s doing just fine feeding me enough information, that I can use the google machine and do more research

 

[451Mopar]

HEI coil. No ballast needed
View attachment 1303872View attachment 1303871

I was looking at the 8-Pin HEI module like you have.
It appears you just capped off the 4-pin connector so it runs in Bypass mode just like a 4-pin unit?
Found a decent block diagram of the 7/8-pin module here:
General Motors HEI Ignition Modules

I have questions on how the factory ECU uses the 7-pin and 8-pin HEI modules to control the ignition timing?
It appears that the conditioned trigger signal is output to pin "R", and also triggers the coil output when in Bypass mode (0 volts on pin "B")
When the module is changed from Bypass to run (5+ volts on pin "B"), the ECU takes the original conditioned trigger signal from pin "R", modifies the signal for timing and dwell, and returns the new trigger signal back to pin "E" to control ignition timing.
Found this info from MegaSquirt on how the advance is calculated.
General Motors 7-pin HEI Ignition Control

 

[Geoff 2]

Bob,
All the information I provided was accurate & sufficient for the OPs needs. Heard of information overload? In forums such as this, that often happens. I kept it simple so that the OP could decide on the parts he needed, suggested choices to get his car running. Apparently the comment about the crystal set went over your head; it was to convey the length of time I have been involved in the electrical/electronics industry.
I do not know how you draw the conclusion that you are 'likely more educated' since you do not know me, my background or educational status & take exception to the condescending remark.
Apparently

 

[Frank Mopar]

I was looking at the 8-Pin HEI module like you have.
It appears you just capped off the 4-pin connector so it runs in Bypass mode just like a 4-pin unit?
Found a decent block diagram of the 7/8-pin module here:
General Motors HEI Ignition Modules

I have questions on how the factory ECU uses the 7-pin and 8-pin HEI modules to control the ignition timing?
It appears that the conditioned trigger signal is output to pin "R", and also triggers the coil output when in Bypass mode (0 volts on pin "B")
When the module is changed from Bypass to run (5+ volts on pin "B"), the ECU takes the original conditioned trigger signal from pin "R", modifies the signal for timing and dwell, and returns the new trigger signal back to pin "E" to control ignition timing.
Found this info from MegaSquirt on how the advance is calculated.
General Motors 7-pin HEI Ignition Control

My system is not wired to control timing.

 

[Frank Mopar]

PerTronix D72000 PerTronix Flame-Thrower HEI III 4-Pin Ignition Modules | Summit Racing

 

[451Mopar]

Heard of information overload? In forums such as this, that often happens.

Sorry about the info overload. The 8-pin module got me going because last week I was looking at how to adapt the GM knock sensor & module to pull timing from the HEI module.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

On an hei system, you gap the plugs to .060, and from what I understand it’s a much powerful spark. So do I run a hotter plug too?

 

[Frank Mopar]

On an hei system, you gap the plugs to .060, and from what I understand it’s a much powerful spark. So do I run a hotter plug too?

No. Absolutely not.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

No. Absolutely not.

So I’d stay in the 5 range for ngk or the 11/12 range for champion?

 

[Geoff 2]

Cheap.
Yes, NGK 5 & 12 is the equivalent in Champion. Hotter spark does not mean you run a hotter or colder plug. They are two different things. When referring to a 'hotter' spark, hotter means there is more heat in the spark; it is the heat that ignites the A/F mixture. A hotter plug refers to the centre electrode tip temperature. The temp has to be maintained between certain limits; hot enough to burn off deposits at idle/low speeds but not to hot that it causes pre-ignition. From the Bosch Automotive handbook: the plug tip must reach the self cleaning temp of > 400*C ASAP & a max of 850*C in the interest of service life.

GM specified 060 plug gaps for most engines & a few were 080!

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Cheap.
Yes, NGK 5 & 12 is the equivalent in Champion. Hotter spark does not mean you run a hotter or colder plug. They are two different things. When referring to a 'hotter' spark, hotter means there is more heat in the spark; it is the heat that ignites the A/F mixture. A hotter plug refers to the centre electrode tip temperature. The temp has to be maintained between certain limits; hot enough to burn off deposits at idle/low speeds but not to hot that it causes pre-ignition. From the Bosch Automotive handbook: the plug tip must reach the self cleaning temp of > 400*C ASAP & a max of 850*C in the interest of service life.

GM specified 060 plug gaps for most engines & a few were 080!

Thank you and everyone else for all your help! I’m completely new to all of this, and have no idea what I’m doing

 

[Big bill]

I understand R413s point of view.
My problem with points is the quality of parts currently available. Quality (accel) high rpm points haven't been available for twenty years, and I would trust a thirty year old condenser much more than a brand new one.
I would have no problem putting my prestolite dual point back in..... but I ain't putting new points and condenser in it.
(I still have an accel dual point distributor for a Chevy with point springs that would hold up a garage door!).

I have 30 plus sets of said accel points for sale $10

 

[MOPAR MARTY]

Hello everyone, I’m looking to change my ignition setup on my 68 GTX, with a low performance 440. I was running a Mallory unilite, but it has crapped out, and I’m considering changing it to factory style electronic, kinda tired of messing with 50 year old worn out stuff. Ive kinda narrowed down to 2 options, but I have questions about quality, and parts available, and maybe there’s something I haven’t considered.

First one I’m looking at is mopars conversation kit. Is it just offshore crap, or is it a quality piece? If I need to replace anything are parts available. And if it needs recurved is the parts available and easy to do?
Electronic Distributor Conversion Kit

The second one is Mancinis “hipo” unit. Same questions, is it a quality Mancini built piece, or is it rebranded Ching Chong? And what makes it “hipo”?
Electronic Ignition Conversion Kit, Hi-Po ECU

Any suggestions and help is appreciated!

if u want factory go back to points ! or go to he mopar performance conversion kit . with the aftermarket all ready been guy on it . u may have to pfix wiring issues . it will depend on how butcherered up the under hood wiring harness is now

 

[MOPAR MARTY]

I would ask our "Mr Mopar ignition" for his advice. @HALIFAXHOPS .

lol

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

if u want factory go back to points ! or go to he mopar performance conversion kit . with the aftermarket all ready been guy on it . u may have to pfix wiring issues . it will depend on how butcherered up the under hood wiring harness is now

I rewired the car so there’s no butchered wires. And with a little bit of pre planning, it’ll stay that way and look completely factory.

 

[69 R/T]

I've had great success using the Pertronix Igniter II with the black Flame Thrower coil to maintain a stock appearance. I have a great advance curve built into my stock points distributor, so this method was about $200 from Summit. If you are concerned with the extra 12v power supply wire, you can simply solder a jumper to the back side of your ballast resistor to keep a constant 12v running to the coil and simply attach the power lead to the + side of the coil. It's a reliable, super clean and stealthy installation.