Show me just 1 of those 43,438 people that are for Bosch plugs.
Here's a tip for your journey, maybe look at some Mercedes forums. Good luck!
which spark plugs?
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Here's a tip for your journey, maybe look at some Mercedes forums. Good luck!
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Wow and KD gets holidays for memes...
usually I don't take sides, but man I have not had good experiences with Bosch plugs lasting long term in several cars. They sure do good marketing though. A quick google search pulling up a Reddit thread shows the first several posts also not happy with Bosch. All opinions of course...
"NGK make the best spark plugs and electrical components on the planet. Bosch makes bullshit. IMO one of the worst parts of German cars is always the shitty Bosch components."
"Bosch parts suck imo, had an O2 Sensor from them that lasted a total of 2 months. I have heard bad things about Bosch from multiple sources. Did my plugs 4 months ago with NGKand they still feel great."
"I used Bosch once.....once. Never again."
I only base my opinion on years and years of experience and real world testing. Since Bob has none of that background, I wonder if there's an actual need for his comments here.
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How do you know what my backgound is or applicable to this argument. How many "years and years" of design experience (mechanical-steel, electrical, precious alloys used in the electtodes , ceramics used in the insulator and heat transfer characteristicsg, engine, ignition, etc., as I have several professional engineering credentials) or are you are just characteristics, using the DFL factor? Car dealer Technicias/mechanics use the applicable brands......GM/AC, FORD/MOTORCRAFT, MERCEDES-BENZ/BOSCH, ETC......if the NGK brand is the "be- all to end brand" for all engine componenhhs, WHY ARE THEY NOT UNIVERSALLY INSTALLED IN ALL VEHICLE'S? You are certainly allowed to express your OPINION......But, do not assume you speak for me, as I have the same "right" to express my opinion and use whatever component i I deem necessary for my application
BOB RENTON
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Just keeps getting better...
Yes. Many ( most?) Manufacturers have or are moving to NGK. Just to clear that up.
My question is; do you recommend Bosch over NGK.
66 Sat
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Here's another question: IF Bosch plugs suck (and I have had good experiences with them personally), then WHY?
I don't understand why a manufacturer would purposely make a product that doesn't work well. Spark plug construction can't be that complicated surely? I realise they are trying to make money but if I recall they are quite expensive anyway, so why make them in such a way that they don't work well?
Bosch always had a great reputation for quality parts. In my electronic ignition the cheap Chinese control unit was swapped out for a Bosch one for that reason.
Could it be that they work great in OEM applications where the parameters are set more closely and they can be matched exactly to the requirements of the engine, but then due to their precise construction they can't handle the aftermarket with the myriad of different tunes etc?
I don't understand why a manufacturer would purposely make a product that doesn't work well. Spark plug construction can't be that complicated surely? I realise they are trying to make money but if I recall they are quite expensive anyway, so why make them in such a way that they don't work well?
Bosch always had a great reputation for quality parts. In my electronic ignition the cheap Chinese control unit was swapped out for a Bosch one for that reason.
Could it be that they work great in OEM applications where the parameters are set more closely and they can be matched exactly to the requirements of the engine, but then due to their precise construction they can't handle the aftermarket with the myriad of different tunes etc?
Geoff 2
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I like NGK because they are innovative.
I am old enough to remember the slugging NGK took in magazines when they introduced the copper centre electrode. Champion was one of the worst offenders, claiming the copper would 'melt'....Of course, now they ALL use copper......
I had an early model Honda 750 m/c; it had points ign. With Champion R-6 plugs, you would be lucky to make it around the block before they fouled. NGKs lasted a lot longer...
I am old enough to remember the slugging NGK took in magazines when they introduced the copper centre electrode. Champion was one of the worst offenders, claiming the copper would 'melt'....Of course, now they ALL use copper......
I had an early model Honda 750 m/c; it had points ign. With Champion R-6 plugs, you would be lucky to make it around the block before they fouled. NGKs lasted a lot longer...
Moparfever65
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I became an NGK fan when (a long time ago) I was testing the top speed of my motorcycle and was starting to feel a miss at the limit. I was running Champion at the time. Replaced with NGK and was able to run it to it's horsepower limit with no miss at all. Of course there was probably lots of others that might have worked, but why change what's working? Also noticed funny cars running NGK's at the nationals last year, of course that's a different animal altogether. Whatever works.
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Without any substantiation all you state is just noise. The copper you note is an alloy that has s higher melting point....what is the copper alloy?......don't know??? Don't guess??? Which alloy is it? Chrome copper or nickel copper or copper-tungsten or one othe other variations of copper alloy. Spark plug fouling is usully the result of owner ineptitude, subscribing to the "my buddy says" rule or ignition system inadequacy....but is the copper alloy culprit of misapplication ....but is the easiest component to blame. Use specifics not generalities. Please state the "NGK INNOVATIONS" you note, to be able to correlate one brand vs another and others may lesrn Magazine articles are simply one person's opinion ay a point in time. The S.A.E., (Society of Automotive Engineers) has several articles/papers re spark plugs and engines. I suggest you read them to gain a better understanding and insight to the subject.
BOB RENTON
Geoff 2
Well-Known Member
No, 66 Sat, Bob's bullshit v my real world experience. Apparently with all his ravings about Copper alloys.... & melting points........ he doesn't know that the copper in the centre electrode is encased in a nickel/steel jacket....so that the Copper is not directly exposed to combustion heat.
NGK history & achievements are on their website.
And, Bob Renton, what is there that you stated in post #52 that is anything other than NOISE??????????
What FACT have you stated???????????????
NGK history & achievements are on their website.
And, Bob Renton, what is there that you stated in post #52 that is anything other than NOISE??????????
What FACT have you stated???????????????
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Or more aptly stated: KNOWLEDGE (Renton) vs SPECULATION AND HEARSAY (GEOFF 2)????? Let's compare credentials and education levels and "hands-on" experience.....
BOB RENTON .
Geoff 2
Well-Known Member
59 yrs of hands on experience here. But so what? Could have been doing the right think...or the wrong thing for those 59 yrs.
So now we have RJ Renton proclaiming to be the font of all 'knowledge'. Not from what I have seen.....
And credentials? Some of the smartest, richest & most successful people in the world didn't finish school, have a tertiary education or.......have letters after their name.
So now we have RJ Renton proclaiming to be the font of all 'knowledge'. Not from what I have seen.....
And credentials? Some of the smartest, richest & most successful people in the world didn't finish school, have a tertiary education or.......have letters after their name.
Some Car Guy
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I run NGKs because they work, that’s why. Somebody wanted to know why they aren’t in all new cars since they are so good, easy to see it’s because of money.
I will point out in my turbo ford, it’s accepted that NGK makes the factory plugs. Side by side they look like unbranded NGKs, they don’t do as well as NGKs off the shelf. Tuners recommend the marked ones in place of what comes unmarked in the motorcrap box. So it’s either make a plug to a price point, or not at all. Pick your battles in business.
Another brand I have/would use based on experience is Denso. Those flat out worked in LS1 I had.
Every champion I’ve changed to ngk worked better. I pulled some junky Bosch ones out of a 4 valve 4.6 and never looked back, went to ngk that day too.
In a big mopar, I run the iridium ones. I don’t like doing chores more than I have to, plus I personally like the fine wire deal. Before some buffoon asks why, it’s just because I do and mainly due to the precision set gap.
I'm looking forward to ditching factory plugs and going to ruthenium in the turbo. Idle seems rougher as I close on 30k, just like people say. Seems the exotic stuff can go 50k or more.
I will point out in my turbo ford, it’s accepted that NGK makes the factory plugs. Side by side they look like unbranded NGKs, they don’t do as well as NGKs off the shelf. Tuners recommend the marked ones in place of what comes unmarked in the motorcrap box. So it’s either make a plug to a price point, or not at all. Pick your battles in business.
Another brand I have/would use based on experience is Denso. Those flat out worked in LS1 I had.
Every champion I’ve changed to ngk worked better. I pulled some junky Bosch ones out of a 4 valve 4.6 and never looked back, went to ngk that day too.
In a big mopar, I run the iridium ones. I don’t like doing chores more than I have to, plus I personally like the fine wire deal. Before some buffoon asks why, it’s just because I do and mainly due to the precision set gap.
I'm looking forward to ditching factory plugs and going to ruthenium in the turbo. Idle seems rougher as I close on 30k, just like people say. Seems the exotic stuff can go 50k or more.
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PEng and a desk don't mean ****... probably why I threw my pinky ring away in 1983 and went back to getting my hands dirty. I didn't want to "belong" !
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DPeltz
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Come on guys, how much can you argue about plugs? Is there really that much difference between the major brands?
I chimed in earlier about NGK only because whatever they coat their products with seems to have a better resistance to galling in aluminum heads, because I was first exposed to them in motorcycles in the 70’s
I chimed in earlier about NGK only because whatever they coat their products with seems to have a better resistance to galling in aluminum heads, because I was first exposed to them in motorcycles in the 70’s
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