Who Likes Aircraft ?

[Photon440]

Fortunately for us, the war ended before this JU-390 got into production although flying prototypes existed. This was the 'Amerika Bomber', designed to fly long distance to bomb New York.

 

[super-bee_ski]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/aviat...-reunites-anniversary-speed-record/index.html

I "think" the F-22 can run down a SR-71

 

[Budnicks]

I "think" the F-22 can run down a SR-71

Damn are they that fast ?

 

[super-bee_ski]

One of my "FAVs"
Taken here at "sunny" Edwards AFB

 

[super-bee_ski]

Damn are they that fast ?

View attachment 354192

We will not "release" the top speed (America)
Look at it this way:
1. Limiting factors on speed for aircraft: Aluminum overheats, titanium is heavy, the F-22 is composite
2. A Barn door is NOT aerodynamic, the SR-71 is sleek, the F-22's shape is invisible to RADAR hence forth, sleek, aerodynamic
3. Thrust of the SR-71 engines: J-58s *(A 1958 design) is 32,500 with afterburner (X2), the Pratt & Whitney F119 (X2) is 40,000 thrust
4. The weight of the SR-71 is (minimum) 170,000Lbs, the weight of the F-22 is 56,000 lbs

Now, let us look at it this way:
The F4 Phantom flew Mach 2.2 in 1961 (Dec 21st 1961 USAF)
The thought of an Air Speed record set in 1975 certainly should be capable of being beat 40 years later with technology upgrades!
And, most importantly, the MIG 25 "R" was "clocked" at 3.0 Mach over Israel during the Yom Kippur war (1972)

So, the worlds most advanced aircraft, the F-22 can only fly Mach 2?
(It super cruises at Mach 1 without going into afterburner)

So, in my opinion...YES

 

[Budnicks]

I figured there'd be issues going near "mach 3 +" on the composites...
{speeds "allegedly IIRC were claimed" done by the SR-71/A12's {?}

Thanks for sharing what you can anyway Ski...
Yep we don't need our secrets out when not necessary...

Damn, I learn something new here every damn day...LOL

More reason to love the new planes, like the F-22/Raptor & others...

 

[super-bee_ski]

In my opinion,
The composites today are TEMP safe
After all, remember the "Tiles" on the "Leading edges" of the Space Shuttle?
They were a ceramic composite ....
Of course the Shuttle was re-entering at about 15,000 mph and "braking" with it's bath-tub design

 

[super-bee_ski]

So, when I arrived at Edwards, early 1994, I was HEAVY into Pontiacs (and Mopars)
I went to a NASA seminar about Aircraft design, aerodynamics and upcoming technologies

The Guest Speaker told us (with slides) about THIS program:
Lifting body designs, M2-F1 Lifting body and the "Flights" before the drop from the B-29 or B-52
They called them the Bath Tubs

So, the first 50 flights were nothing more than the M2-F1 being towed 100 ft behind a specially modified 1963 Pontiac Catalina Superduty
The car was special ordered from Pontiac (1962 Pontiac Superdutys owned the Drag strips, NASCAR and won the Pikes Peak Hill race)
This car was then sent to a "So Cal" speed shop for more MODS to include: Roll Bar set up to latch the cable, beefier brakes etc.

The pilot would be dragged until it was aerodynamically lifted and pseudo flown.

There the flight test instrumentation would collect the data (hey! that's what I do...LOL)

So, I started looking for this car, ended up finding out it went to Maryland, PAX River NAS and is perhaps sitting in a barn somewhere
What a neat car to have!

 

[Budnicks]

So, when I arrived at Edwards, early 1994, I was HEAVY into Pontiacs (and Mopars)
I went to a NASA seminar about Aircraft design, aerodynamics and upcoming technologies

The Guest Speaker told us (with slides) about THIS program:
Lifting body designs, M2-F1 Lifting body and the "Flights" before the drop from the B-29 or B-52
They called them the Bath Tubs

So, the first 50 flights were nothing more than the M2-F1 being towed 100 ft behind a specially modified 1963 Pontiac Catalina Superduty
The car was special ordered from Pontiac (1962 Pontiac Superdutys owned the Drag strips, NASCAR and won the Pikes Peak Hill race)
This car was then sent to a "So Cal" speed shop for more MODS to include: Roll Bar set up to latch the cable, beefier brakes etc.

The pilot would be dragged until it was aerodynamically lifted and pseudo flown.

There the flight test instrumentation would collect the data (hey! that's what I do...LOL)

So, I started looking for this car, ended up finding out it went to Maryland, PAX River NAS and is perhaps sitting in a barn somewhere
What a neat car to have!

That'd be a great find, piece of history too,
I like Pontiacs too, well used to a lot more back 20 years ago...
I still want another 65 GTO, some day...
{I'm too Mopar poor now...LOL}

cool story

 

[super-bee_ski]

The 63 Pontiac at speed
The seminar speaker said the "runs" were at 100 mph

 

[super-bee_ski]

"LOOK MA, NO WINGS!"

 

[Budnicks]

There was a famed Superbird chase rig {?}, USAF or might have been Navy
I don't remember where they used it though,
EPA used one too, testing pollution from jets, it was white repainted blue

 

[super-bee_ski]

I'll take a quick run over to the Edwards AFB aircraft museum to see if this "Lifting Body M2-F1" is there.
If so, I'll snap a selfie

 

[super-bee_ski]

There was a famed Superbird chase rig {?}, USAF or might have been Navy
I don't remember where they used it though,
EPA used one too, testing pollution from jets, it was white repainted blue

View attachment 354206 View attachment 354207 View attachment 354208

Imagine having that car?

I almost bought a "white" S-bird in Dayton Ohio (early USAF days, 1982) with a blue bench seat interior, some rust for $3,500
His name was "Kenny Justice" from Dayton, BIG MOPAR guy

I wish to own a Superbird some day....

 

[super-bee_ski]

Possibly at Beale AFB? Up North by you Budnicks?
(Marysville, CA)
A one time home of the SR-71s and U-2s
Now home to the U-2s

Used as a chase plane?

 

[super-bee_ski]

Yup, got it:

The 1970 Plymouth Superbird that Helped the EPA Clear the Air Heads to Auction [Updated]

UPDATE: The EPA’s bird was most recently for sale for the sum of $750,000 or “serious offer”—the restoration reportedly cost $700,000 alone.

 

[Budnicks]

Possibly at Beale AFB? Up North by you Budnicks?
(Marysville, CA)
A one time home of the SR-71s and U-2s
Now home to the U-2s

Used as a chase plane?

Not really by me, 175-200 miles away, in the valley
but it is here in the northern part of the state
my mom & step dad Bob, used to lived outside of Marysville &
my nephew Keith {who I raised} was stationed there for a while,
I/we saw a bunch of cool things there...
In Elmendorf AFB {Anchorage} SAC base IIRC too...

 

[super-bee_ski]

Yup, you are correct....
But, coming from Rhode Island, anything within 250 miles for me NOW is close.....
LOL

 

[MOPOWER871]

"LOOK MA, NO WINGS!"


View attachment 354205

Steve Austin, astronaut, we can rebuild him ..

 

[Photon440]

I "think" the F-22 can run down a SR-7
We will not "release" the top speed (America)
Look at it this way:
1. Limiting factors on speed for aircraft: Aluminum overheats, titanium is heavy, the F-22 is composite
2. A Barn door is NOT aerodynamic, the SR-71 is sleek, the F-22's shape is invisible to RADAR hence forth, sleek, aerodynamic
3. Thrust of the SR-71 engines: J-58s *(A 1958 design) is 32,500 with afterburner (X2), the Pratt & Whitney F119 (X2) is 40,000 thrust
4. The weight of the SR-71 is (minimum) 170,000Lbs, the weight of the F-22 is 56,000 lbs

There were composites on the SR-71 but you're right, the majority was titanium. Not as heavy as you think, much lighter than steel but with nearly three times the strength of aluminum it can be made thinner and save weight. The SR-71 max takeoff weight was 172,000 lbs but it was 67,500 empty. I agree that the top speed for the F22 is likely classified, but the 'official' top speed would have to increase nearly 700 mph. just to reach the 'official' SR-71 top speed.

High speed dashes in fighters such as the F-22 or that MIG-25 are not the same thing; they normally supercruise at a slower rate. The SR-71 airframe and engine inlets were designed to be most efficient at mach 3.2 and would run across the country like that while that famous MIG speed run (1973) landed with both of it's Tumansky engines destroyed. The mach redline was 2.8 on the MIG that the US obtained from a 1976 Russian pilot defection and pilots were instructed not to exceed 2.5.

Being invisible to radar doesn't necessarily mean sleek and aerodynamic. The F-177a Nighthawk was the size of a marble on radar but not that sleek, not even supersonic.

I'd LIKE the F-22 to be that fast, but still wouldn't be surprised if the old SR-71 was faster simply because it was designed for speed alone and didn't have to worry about dogfighting or handling.