1968 440 with stock manifolds (cam selection help.)

[Officer Higgins]

Found this old video from a old link off another mopar forum believe from 2008. Guy here set up his charger with a bob k cam and ran dyno test here using manifolds . Fellow reported 400 hp and 505 tq didn't say what rpm but pretty respectable.

 

[Mebsuta]

I drive in traffic, so I think I would rather be quick than fast. By the time you wind up, you're already at the next red light or stop sign.

 

[Turboomni]

Has anyone seen the budget 440 stroker build article in Hemmings this last month? Also is there a thread like this but regarding selecting a cam for a 440 stroker build? I am a C body guy from FCBO and have been checking this site for build ideas.

 

[minnesota guy]

Hi, I built a 1969 GTX a few years back as "stock" Factory intake...906 heads ported by me...But I ran a "Bullet" cam--It was awesome...I called them and had them grind one based on NHRA stock lift for 1969--but have similar dimensions to stock so it would idle and sound stock. They built me a heck of a cam for under 200.00 and idled well. I had full 2.5 TTI exhaust on factory manifolds. I found some 40 yr old Poly Glas 14 tires to mount on stock Magnum rims. Carter correct 750cfm carb for the year....4:10 gears...low stall converter to avoid spinning..That car ran on first time out 13.62 at 102 spinning quite abit, but she really had top end..used 6 pack pistons that were 0 deck and the 906 heads were milled .070 or so. Ran factory choke.....The real problem was that intake manifold--it is a real stinker for 1969-71...I ran a similar set up years before in my 71 Cuda -but I could use any cast intake--and The best Mopar Cast intake for flow and power hands down for single 4 barrel was the 440 Thermoquad intake. I had the center meat all cut out and ran a 5/8 tall wall only...In testing it was 2/10 faster than an M-1 dual plane aluminum intake of the day and also the same amount over a 1971 type cast iron intake with center taken out...If you can sneak a Thermocough intake on a factory set up--go for it...Just get the center taken out and leave walls around 5/8 tall or so...….I am just finishing a 1971 Cuda FAST type now. Just need to put on passenger side head pipe from TTI. 6 Pack set up. 493 CID 440. .030 440 with 4.15 crank (all that was available last fall). Porter solid roller .625 lift on a 114 lobe separation with Mancini 1.6 rockers....13.9 compression- Mancini Kit...Diamond pistons..New 452 castings I found on Ebay for 80.00 flow 282 intake and 200 exhaust. Living in MN I used to race 2 of the FAST guys --Wayne Nelson and Joel -with their 69 vette and 67 GTX at the time..BIR race track. Did well and that was fun, but they got rid of a Stock program at that track and it has not been the same for 15 years. SO I am building the car for the fun of it.

 

[1968rt]

Bowl ported heads, CH4B intake and a .528 mechanical will make 450 hp. Open up the exhaust manifolds and smooth out as far into it you can go. Stock intake will cost you HP. The CH4B looks stock, just paint it!

 

[BSB67]

............this dyno stuff is like a bunch of teenagers doing a penis measuring contest. i'm over it!!!!!!!!!! stuff isn't real.....................nobody blends the real world with the internet/magazine world. the chassis dyno is the lie detector.

Tell us how you really feel...

 

[BSB67]

can I make excuses?.....lol. the most fun I had in a near stock engine was a 440 with home done pocket port 906's, kb184 pistons/9.3:1 comp, hughes engle 2330 cam, stock exhaust, 3.23 gear, torqueflite, 4060lbs, 225-70x15 ta radials; 107.92mph. e't's weren't good because I couldn't drive the car out; 13.20 something. I only made two passes with this set-up. got disgusted and quit. this combo made 327hp at the tire at around 4300rpm. power was flat from 4300rpm to 5300rpm where power fell off the cliff. the 272/.455 cam ran 13.13/106mph. knowing what I know now I could improve on this, but that's excuses.

This is with a 6 Pack. Results with an unmodified 4 bbl factory cast iron intake will be much different. The intake is a much bigger hurdle than everything else.

 

[BSB67]

......... I plan on putting around $4000 into this engine build.

Okay, that clears it up. Call Dwayne for a cam. Keep your expectations low.

 

[BSB67]

at one time engle had a "blue sheet" that had their specs which included the .904 lifter profiles, and other .842 types. it may still be available. those .904 lifter profiles aren't fast compared to the comp xe's or hl profiles.

I think this was "blue"

 

[m79ded]

View attachment 763054 View attachment 763051 View attachment 763049 View attachment 763049 View attachment 763049 View attachment 763049 Hi, I built a 1969 GTX a few years back as "stock" Factory intake...906 heads ported by me...But I ran a "Bullet" cam--It was awesome...I called them and had them grind one based on NHRA stock lift for 1969--but have similar dimensions to stock so it would idle and sound stock. They built me a heck of a cam for under 200.00 and idled well. I had full 2.5 TTI exhaust on factory manifolds. I found some 40 yr old Poly Glas 14 tires to mount on stock Magnum rims. Carter correct 750cfm carb for the year....4:10 gears...low stall converter to avoid spinning..That car ran on first time out 13.62 at 102 spinning quite abit, but she really had top end..used 6 pack pistons that were 0 deck and the 906 heads were milled .070 or so. Ran factory choke.....The real problem was that intake manifold--it is a real stinker for 1969-71...I ran a similar set up years before in my 71 Cuda -but I could use any cast intake--and The best Mopar Cast intake for flow and power hands down for single 4 barrel was the 440 Thermoquad intake. I had the center meat all cut out and ran a 5/8 tall wall only...In testing it was 2/10 faster than an M-1 dual plane aluminum intake of the day and also the same amount over a 1971 type cast iron intake with center taken out...If you can sneak a Thermocough intake on a factory set up--go for it...Just get the center taken out and leave walls around 5/8 tall or so...….I am just finishing a 1971 Cuda FAST type now. Just need to put on passenger side head pipe from TTI. 6 Pack set up. 493 CID 440. .030 440 with 4.15 crank (all that was available last fall). Porter solid roller .625 lift on a 114 lobe separation with Mancini 1.6 rockers....13.9 compression- Mancini Kit...Diamond pistons..New 452 castings I found on Ebay for 80.00 flow 282 intake and 200 exhaust. Living in MN I used to race 2 of the FAST guys --Wayne Nelson and Joel -with their 69 vette and 67 GTX at the time..BIR race track. Did well and that was fun, but they got rid of a Stock program at that track and it has not been the same for 15 years. SO I am building the car for the fun of it.

View attachment 763049

You are right I did that to my Iron TQ intake and it ran very well, with manifolds iron intake a 850 tq mild hydraulic from bullet in a wide separation and of bowl blended 452 heads my 79 Magnum weighing 4200lbs ran a best of 12.68 109 mph. With Performer ran 12.90.

 

[minnesota guy]

Exactly! I found my success out by God's grace. The 1971 intake and the M-1 aluminum that copied it, back in the 90's were such a pooch, and I had a Thermocough laying around so, I took it to my machinist on a whim to test. Our factory class at BIR had to have a cast iron factory intake. Mine is hogged out a little more than yours. Adaptor to run a 1971 Carter AVS 4968 750 cfm AVS also gives it more plenum volume. I posted 11.89 at 112mph with that. We could run Hoosier Quick Time Pro tires. We just had to have exhaust all the way back, So I was able to run TTI 3 inch right when they first came out basically. A 9.5 Dynamic converter was a great converter. Racer Brown Hydraulic 300 Duration 254 @ .050 with stamped steel rockers and heavy 6 pack pistons...Trying a bunch of cams in that combo, that hydraulic RB ran the best beating any solid I ever tried. STH-41 or 42 grind that cam is. Really makes a 440 go in my opinion for hydraulics. .Here is a picture of my intake.

 

[minnesota guy]

Forgot to add, we could also have headers so I had basic Hooker Comps with 1 7/8 tubes.

 

[PRHeads]

Forgot to add, we could also have headers so I had basic Hooker Comps with 1 7/8 tubes.

Well...... that really opens up the doors for a bunch of cams that just won’t yield positive results when used with ex manifolds(which would more than likely include that RB 300* hyd that you were using).

Looking forward to hearing some track results from the Cuda.

 

[minnesota guy]

I ran 11.89 with Hooker Comps and full TTI exhaust on that car. For an MSRA (Minnesota Street Rods) event at BIR I put factory 68-69 HP exhaust on and the appropriate head tubes from TTI to match the exhaust near the H pipe. Same set up, just factory exhaust manifolds --Car went to a 12.20 et. So, 3 tenths loss or so. Late August hot and humid MN temps...

 

[PRHeads]

At roughly 3800lbs....... that’s about a 32hp difference.

In FAST, the TQ manifold wouldn’t be legal, or the 3” exhaust...... or the sticky tires.

 

[minnesota guy]

Correct. but at BIR, for the time period, it was allowed. This was before FAST was created.

 

[Turboomni]

You are right I did that to my Iron TQ intake and it ran very well, with manifolds iron intake a 850 tq mild hydraulic from bullet in a wide separation and of bowl blended 452 heads my 79 Magnum weighing 4200lbs ran a best of 12.68 109 mph. With Performer ran 12.90.View attachment 763629 View attachment 763630 View attachment 763631

I have a choice on my build between 2 different mopar cast iron intakes. One is like yours a 3698444-2 or a 2806178. Which would you guys think is better?
Here is a pic of the 2806178 It was used in 67-69

 

[minnesota guy]

The Thermoquad intake without a doubt will make A lot more HP. Get rid of the center guts and keep the dividing wall 1/2-5/8 or so. In my opinion. The other is a dog.

 

[Ckeely]

I am starting to consider painting a ch4b intake do to the 68 intake restriction to flow. But definitely want to keep the factory exhaust manifold . The bullet Cam sounds interesting as well. Thanks for the information.

 

[Cudadude2]

Those later intakes are much better than the earlier one. After I spend many hours playing with mine I got my Runner to 12.1 @ 113.9