Thanks - that's potentially really good news. I will certainly check with my father-in-law to see what he says; he has owned a speed shop for about 45 years and has all machines available, so if it is fixable, then that is what we will do!
Hawk
340 Blew
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Thanks - that's potentially really good news. I will certainly check with my father-in-law to see what he says; he has owned a speed shop for about 45 years and has all machines available, so if it is fixable, then that is what we will do!
Hawk
moper
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I'm not sure the value of the car will be enough to cover fixing that block. Anything "can" be saved. Rarely is it end result worth it. I see welding, two sleeves, and complete remachining - like the cam bore, main bore, the pan rail, the bolt holes drilled and tapped... all for a '73 RR worth what monetarily? Not meaning to minimize the emotion but if it's now your son's car, find another 340 block ,std bore, and buy it and start over. Take that one, take pictures, and drop it at the recyclers.
I'd never say toss it there must be a corner someplace? My block sat 10 years under a halved 55 gallon drum tarp covered. Been inside last 29 years.
moper
Well-Known Member
Having worked at a shop that saved a bunch of Ford 427 side oilers for Cobras... Be ready for a fixed 340 block that comes with a $3-4K bill. Not the engine. Just the block. They cost nothing sitting there. It's fixing that does...lol. And anyone that told me they had the numbers block for a car I was looking at, and showed me that, would get laughed at pretty heartilly. Maybe an AAR/TA block. Certainly a 440 6bbl or Hemi. But a 340 in a lesser valued model - might make a nice table?
I keep mine because I think it can be repaired.(See post #40). Yes big buck I would expect. I think it maybe worth while for a future owner. The block in the could be sold to recoup the repair.
In the case of a 340 you do it because you want original block. Maybe somebody might want, if it's tossed it will never happen.
OK charger
Well-Known Member
My theory is that rod was fatigued and let loose. Just my opinion and sorry for the loss.
Emotion aside, I completely agree with you guys - it is not worth fixing the block... ...except that my father-in-law owns a speed shop. That means I get the family discount!
So this means it is not so much a cost thing as much as it is an effort thing. Even with that, I may not fix it. All your points about a 73 340 not being worth that much are well taken - because it is true. I will wait for his evaluation on the block and then we'll go from there.I am no expert, but that certainly seems to be the very plausible. A guess of mine based on the evidence would be this: The rod let loose on #4, jammed #4 up near TDC with the upper half of the rod poking a hole through the bore. The lower half remains of the #4 rod then took out the #3 piston, and the #3 rod also moved to the vacant spot where #4 rod was, and then that jammed #3 piston hard into the side of the bore wall, cracking it and then seizing the engine.
Thank for the replies!
Hawk
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Wow, looks rough in there. Sorry for the loss of the motor.
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Sorry to hear of the devastation ... but I'm very glad your son and the car are OK considering he was in traffic on the I state.
Hope all is going well
Hope all is going well
moper
Well-Known Member
It will only be worth it if your shop is capable of such a repair...lol cheap and still unusable doesn't help..lol.
Sorry about the carnage Hawk . . . what a bummer ... .
Co-worker had a rod break in his 5.7 Hemi in his Durango - the half end of the rod blew holes in both sides of the block - it wasn't happy until the destruction was complete !
Co-worker had a rod break in his 5.7 Hemi in his Durango - the half end of the rod blew holes in both sides of the block - it wasn't happy until the destruction was complete !
Absolutely agree. The car, or any parts of it, can be repaired or replaced.
This got me wondering: If it was a four speed (rather than an automatic) could the rear wheels have locked up? That seems pretty plausible (and scary if it happens at 70MPH)...
But a 4-speed - you push in the clutch and separate the engine from the trans . . . then coast to a stop . . .
Think they would lock. He could push in the clutch.
Right - certainly pushing the clutch in would disengage the wheels. Of course, you'd have to realize what was going on, and hopefully that wouldn't be too late. Sideways at 70 might not be good!!!
Thanks guys!
moper
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The inertia in the drivetrain would just get the engine into smaller bits, or shear the input shaft. I've never seen rear tires lock at high speeds but it's probably possible with the right parts getting caught.
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Oh man....I've seen less carnage on a race engine that came apart at 7000!! My kids (all girls) never liked telling me the whole story whenever one of them messed up a car.....makes me madder when I'm lied to but they never caught on to that concept. Not saying this is the case here so please don't take it that way. In my case(s), the car usually told me the truth and after pointing that out and telling them I really needed to know the truth from them so I could look into possible further damage for their own safety is when they usually told me what they were doing at the time. Hey, I did the same thing when I was driving my dad's car lol but I quickly learned that in most cases, the car would tell on me if neighbors or friends of my dad didn't and they usually did. Even after I got my own car they kept telling on me! Thing is, my first car was a hand me down from dad who actually made me pay for half it's value. And sure wish there was a fully equipped machine shop in my family!! I have a few machines but it's a long ways from being fully equipped plus I'm more or less retired and haven't been doing much work lately. And I agree with the fact that that block is going to be labor intensive.....
By the evidence that I can see when I tore it apart, the #4 rod gave out. The rod bolts were still connected (although in pieces), so it didn't come loose due to the rod bolts themselves.
My best guess at this point is this: My son had an oil usage issue a while back when an intake manifold gasket failed, but only in a small area in the lifter valley. This means the engine was sucking oil and burning it. We took a approx. 250 mile trip one day and almost sucked the oil pan dry - we had no idea before that point how bad the issue was. My belief is that the bearings took a beating when that happened. We fixed the gasket issue, and then the car ran fine. But I believe the rod bearings were damaged and ultimately the #3 bearing completely died, affecting #4 rod.
Of course, the above is total speculation, and it really doesn't matter. It is what it is. Now my son needs to come up with the money to do a rebuild. He wants a decent engine, maybe even a stroker, so he is currently saving his money...
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So whatever happened after this? In some ways not having the original engine in a car is very free-ing. Is it a stroker or a 360 magnum now?
Challenger340
Well-Known Member
Not that it matters now, but 2 Comments:
1.) Hopefully lesson learned, because IMO, there is no way some notice wasn't present first, for a period of time well before this catastrophic failure. Again IMO, this didn't just present as a singular and immediate "Loud Bang and then smoke", I believe there was a period of time when a decision to shut down was contemplated, but refused.
2.) Seen and fixed worse, but this is NOT a #'s HEMI Block necessitating an "at any cost" repairs for a 1970 HEMI 'Cuda,
* up to and including cutting the entire back end/bellhousing mounting flange off a 440 Block.... to then Jig/Fit and NiRod weld back onto the HEMI Block, then oven cooling 50*F per hour.
* Welded right through #5 main as well / Line Boring & Honing..... 4 Tries ON & OFF the Dyno to then get the Rear Main to sealed up
* sleeving Oil galleries......
* Grinding then Epoxy'ing over the exterior welds with 40 Grit paper applied to simulate the original Cast Iron finish.... on and on and on.....
and,
remember here, after Cast Welding you are basically dealing with a diamond that is very diffucult to Machine ?
ANYTHING is repairable, but that doesn't mean it should be.....
1.) Hopefully lesson learned, because IMO, there is no way some notice wasn't present first, for a period of time well before this catastrophic failure. Again IMO, this didn't just present as a singular and immediate "Loud Bang and then smoke", I believe there was a period of time when a decision to shut down was contemplated, but refused.
2.) Seen and fixed worse, but this is NOT a #'s HEMI Block necessitating an "at any cost" repairs for a 1970 HEMI 'Cuda,
* up to and including cutting the entire back end/bellhousing mounting flange off a 440 Block.... to then Jig/Fit and NiRod weld back onto the HEMI Block, then oven cooling 50*F per hour.
* Welded right through #5 main as well / Line Boring & Honing..... 4 Tries ON & OFF the Dyno to then get the Rear Main to sealed up
* sleeving Oil galleries......
* Grinding then Epoxy'ing over the exterior welds with 40 Grit paper applied to simulate the original Cast Iron finish.... on and on and on.....
and,
remember here, after Cast Welding you are basically dealing with a diamond that is very diffucult to Machine ?
ANYTHING is repairable, but that doesn't mean it should be.....
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