426 Hemi Intake Question

[70rcode]

Why wouldn't the factory SS Magi dual quad X Ram be the Best Optimum hardest pulling Intake manifold for a stock Bore & Stroke 426 hemi Cammed & tuned for 3500--6500 Rpm power band thru 4500 Stall converter ??....The "65 & "68 factory SS cars performed great with the stock Uncut or modded Magnesium X-ram to 7000 Rpm back then....

 

[dvw]

Though it woud work well, it was designed nearly 60 years ago. Technology has advanced just a little since then.
Doug

 

[Fran Blacker]

Crossram great for looks. Have one. Horsepower Single 1050 Dominator, Road Kill tested the two combinations.

 

[70rcode]

Just trying to Under the Logic of you alls Responses...Intake Tuned flow Physics (Proper sized Plenum, Runner Length & Diameter for max Volumetric efficiency for intended Rpm range) Doesn't Change over time or 60 years !! ...The Tuned 2 x4 Tunnel Ram intake Continues to be the Optimal N/A intake design of All time ....The 2x4 X-ram Is a Laid down Low profile version of the Optimum Tuned Tunnel ram intake.... Chrysler designed
& track Optimized the original '65 Mag X-ram for the 4000--6700 Rpm range & Outperform Every other factory SS Carb design for the Stock 4.25" bore x 3.75" stroke 426 Displacement engine with 0.554--0.600" lift long Overlap Can timing.....They Could have selected the simple Unturned, unequal runner Single plane intake but Didn't !! ......Most hemi Builds today (& dyno run data) use huge Oversized (4.5") Bore & >4" Stroke near 600 cu inch size builds & of Course the factory SS Stock 426 factory Optimized X-ram Intake Is Undersized for >426" engine.....60 yrs later or not, what Physics has Obsoleted the Original sized X-ram Intake for stock 426 engine with similar Original can Timing specs & makes a crude, simple Unturned Runner length Single plane single carb Intake Superior for Stock 426" 4000--6500 Rpm with 4500 Stall converter ???

 

[moparman400]

You would have to look at how and why Ray Barton was making changes to the factory x-ram. I believe he redeveloped the design of that intake.

 

[Fran Blacker]

The tuned factory crossram from the 69/70 era dropped ET's 3 tenth's. What they did was enlarge the cross over opening under bellcrank stud and probably other things.

 

[70rcode]

With All due respect to Ray Bartons not until 1980's SS hemi Operations, He most Certainly did Not have any design or involvement with the 1964 426ci Race Hemi X-ram intake Designs all based on previous Factory designed Max Wedge racing Experience using 0.550 --0.590" lift flat tappet cams & intended 6700 Rpm max operation..... Wasn't till about 1970 when new Radical Hi lift > 0.720" Roller cams & achievable >7500 Rpm Top Tier SS racing 426 Hemis Required More Cfm flow & Diamond--Elkins responded with original Tuned runner intakes Cut off Lids to Shorten & Enlarge runners & Plenum mods....No mention of Barton till the '80s....Again,....my Hemi Build stays within the Original 426" B&S size & 6700 Rpm range using 0.590--0.600" flat tappet cam....So again,...Why Would the much mentioned Unequal Oversized short Runner (for stock 426" 6500 Rpm) single 4 carb Single plane Intake produce More 3500--6500 Rpm dyno or 1/4 mi Strip 4500 Stall Performance ???

 

[70rcode]

With All due respect to Ray Bartons not until 1980's SS hemi Operations, He most Certainly did Not have any design or involvement with the 1964 426ci Race Hemi X-ram intake Designs all based on previous Factory designed Max Wedge racing Experience using 0.550 --0.590" lift flat tappet cams & intended 6700 Rpm max operation..... Wasn't till about 1970 when new Radical Hi lift > 0.720" Roller cams & achievable >7500 Rpm Top Tier SS racing 426 Hemis Required More Cfm flow & Diamond--Elkins responded with original Tuned runner intakes Cut off Lids to Shorten & Enlarge runners & Plenum mods....No mention of Barton till the '80s....Again,....my Hemi Build stays within the Original 426" B&S size & 6700 Rpm range using 0.590--0.600" flat tappet cam....So again,...Why Would the much mentioned Unequal Oversized short Runner (for stock 426" 6500 Rpm) single 4 carb Single plane Intake produce More 3500--6500 Rpm dyno or 1/4 mi Strip 4500 Stall Performance ???

 

[dadsbee]

So it wasn't so much as a question for advise, as it was to an opening for an argument?? Carry on...

 

[dvw]

A straighter runner to the head is best. Correct taper (7degrees is usually pretty close) is better. Plenum and carb entry design is better now. Many years ago I ran max wedge cross rams. One day we dynoed the motor with a stock crossram. Made 658@5750. Then we swapped a Indy 440-25 crossram. Same day. Made 710@6750. It was better from the bottom of the pull (4000) all the way up. Same carbs, timing. This was a relatively low rpm piece. This Indy intake is even better with a large motor. My current racecar makes over 900 with a untouched 440-25. It supports 580"@7200. There's more to it than runner length and cross section. Don't get me wrong. They were very good in the day. And still not horible. But 60 year old cam with the same duration and lift as a modern cam is not going to surpass a modern cam either.
Doug

 

[70rcode]

No argument Intended by my inclusion of Historical data........Simple Logic based application Question to the much more Experienced & Knowledgeable Racers group about the 426ci size original 6700 Rpm range Hemi intake Question.....Have No argument & simply asking for input for my Specific old school 1964--1968 426" 6500 Rpm build Optimum Intake Experience suggestion.....

 

[70rcode]

Thx dvw for Helpful input....You didn't specify what ci size Wedge engine or cam your stock X-ram intake dynoed on ....So How did the Factory bother with their Extensively Engineered & Dyno tested Tuned X-Rams & Totally Miss the Superior performing simple straight shot Unturned Runner simplistic single carb Single plane Intake being super Intuitive & Much less $$ to cast ?? ..... Logically, the X-Ram more design principle related to the Ultimate tuned Tunnel ram than a 1 x 4 unturned single plane.....

 

[moparman400]

By referencing making changes to the factory x-ram , that was implied to Ray's own parts designs / improvements in his own parts.

 

[moparman400]

I think your asking what might have the best flow/ velocity in a given rpm window of 4k-6.7k. with a stock intake or aftermarket ?

 

[moparman400]

If we are talking stock intake, No such thing as STOCK . They got cut up and modified and welded back up. Changes were made.

 

[Jeff Peterson]

After the reintroduction of the Mopar Performance "lid" crossram, I had always heard 20 hp was gained by copying the mods done in the day, I am by no means a drag racer, just car show cool and what I hear/read.
What I do know is, the multiple, required Hemi intake retorque's, SUCK with a crossram!
We had one with the original 770's with all the "tricks" that ran like sh*t, and another with Quik fuels that you'd swear was efi, flawless from the insant you step on it.

 

[70rcode]

Have the Highest regards to RBE & very Thankful they're around......As evidenced by the factory engineers Ramchargers club "High & Mighty" Dominating 1960 Nhra C/A entry sporting dual quad carbs on a full Plenum Tunnel Ram intake feeding a 354ci Hemi, Chrysler engineering was fully aware of performance advantage of "Straight runner to head" angle design additionally Enhance by Tuned runner Length & Diameter.....With all the time factory Dyno time & Professional drivers experimentation,.....How did the factory Miss a much simpler "Superior" 1x4 Untuned Single plane intake ?? .... The consensus seems to be a Single carb untuned Single plane intake out--powers the 426 '65 Factory designed, Dyno run & strip tested racing Tuned runner mag X-ram ?? .......I don't recall seeing any Cut-up X-rams back in Max Wedge & '64--68 hemi SS cars days......

 

[Fran Blacker]

After the reintroduction of the Mopar Performance "lid" crossram, I had always heard 20 hp was gained by copying the mods done in the day, I am by no means a drag racer, just car show cool and what I hear/read.
What I do know is, the multiple, required Hemi intake retorque's, SUCK with a crossram!
We had one with the original 770's with all the "tricks" that ran like sh*t, and another with Quik fuels that you'd swear was efi, flawless from the insant you step on it.

Torquing a crossram is a pain until intake gasket is compressed. I torque over a few days and several times after running.

 

[70rcode]

Thx for all responses & I'll deff consider the single 1050 with Tall rise Direct runner Single plane Intake....How the factory with induction engineering, dyno cell & track racing experience totally Missed the simpler Single plane design is totally amazing....

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

With 426 cubes the original style x-ram is the better choice. The newer MP version is better suited on 500+ cube engines. Cant compare the wedge cross ram to the hemi unit, 2 very different manifolds.