threewood
Well-Known Member
Take look at the KB236 or KB237. Same piston except the 236 has a raised pad for use on open chamber heads (what heads do you have?)
440 rebuild
- Thread starter Artis
- Start date
miller
Well-Known Member
threewood beat me to it. Though, the set I have were the earlier ones, than what's listed now. Bought them, just after measuring the bores, awhile back.
As far as skirt clearance, which I chose, bores are final honed to size with pistons in hand, for wanted clearance. Dang! Sounds simple, huh?
Nothing wrong with a 'good' set of iron heads, if all your going to do, is run around, and make beer runs. My take on it, anyway.
wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
You have to have pistons in hand- I won't do it on spec (anymore)
you can use the 236, do a trial assembly, then cut the domes to dial in your clearance even with wedge heads
yes some part numbers seem to have disappeared
Iron heads, matching number build? there is at least one aluminum that looks Iron when painted
just cost out seats and guides
Since I have access to a Serdi so my cost to do Iron heads is minimal- and to redo the garbage found in Aluminum heads from most any vendor
If you do do Iron take time to blend the bowls and do a multi angle valve job especially on the intake a little bit of work pays off
but IQ's done dyno work later than I have so can advise on cost/ effectiveness when you are paying out of pocket
bottom line Power is in the Heads - everything else is re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic
but for beer runs...
you can use the 236, do a trial assembly, then cut the domes to dial in your clearance even with wedge heads
yes some part numbers seem to have disappeared
Iron heads, matching number build? there is at least one aluminum that looks Iron when painted
just cost out seats and guides
Since I have access to a Serdi so my cost to do Iron heads is minimal- and to redo the garbage found in Aluminum heads from most any vendor
If you do do Iron take time to blend the bowls and do a multi angle valve job especially on the intake a little bit of work pays off
but IQ's done dyno work later than I have so can advise on cost/ effectiveness when you are paying out of pocket
bottom line Power is in the Heads - everything else is re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic
but for beer runs...
lewtot184
Well-Known Member
open chamber heads and pump gas should use the kb184.
Artis
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys!
I want to stay on pump gas.
On engine is stamped - " 3 * 9 * 73" so i hope its forged crank ( after 74 was only cast cranks. true? )
Engine was swapped in my 69' RT Charger. Before me there was instaled some aftermarket manifolds (tomorrow will post a pictures).
Forged pistons are great update, but not for this engine. Im looking for .020 pistons ( as wyrmrider said ).
About heads - I got two pairs from previous owner. One pair is original, dont know about other pair. Will post pictures.
I want to stay on pump gas.
On engine is stamped - " 3 * 9 * 73" so i hope its forged crank ( after 74 was only cast cranks. true? )
Engine was swapped in my 69' RT Charger. Before me there was instaled some aftermarket manifolds (tomorrow will post a pictures).
Forged pistons are great update, but not for this engine. Im looking for .020 pistons ( as wyrmrider said ).
About heads - I got two pairs from previous owner. One pair is original, dont know about other pair. Will post pictures.
wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
pictures and number off the heads
there are two reverse deflector pistons and one flat top
the two reverse deflectors have different compression heights -
one with a 6 pack like which gives almost 0 deck plus the quench dome- see the bottom of the page notes
the other one has a lower deck and ring package and a taller quench dome
both need to be checked with clay as the heads may have been milled or the block or both so you may need to adjust the quench height
with gaskets or with a shim and gasket
they work great but not something you want to just throw together
there are two reverse deflector pistons and one flat top
the two reverse deflectors have different compression heights -
one with a 6 pack like which gives almost 0 deck plus the quench dome- see the bottom of the page notes
the other one has a lower deck and ring package and a taller quench dome
both need to be checked with clay as the heads may have been milled or the block or both so you may need to adjust the quench height
with gaskets or with a shim and gasket
they work great but not something you want to just throw together
lewtot184
Well-Known Member
I've got a new set of kb184 .020" over with new rings I won't be using if your interested.
wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
and cast crank if fine for what you are doing keep the converter and dampner together
Artis
Well-Known Member
All heads has numbers - 2843906. As I read - these are stock 383/440 heads.
Intake - Edelbrock CH4B
No numbers on manifold.
Intake - Edelbrock CH4B
No numbers on manifold.
miller
Well-Known Member
906 heads. Common just to use the last 3 #s. You want to be sure to have them crack checked!
73 motor? Most likely will have a cast crank. Engines are looked at, not only by the block, but the parts inside the block.
73 motor? Most likely will have a cast crank. Engines are looked at, not only by the block, but the parts inside the block.
wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
906 do not have hard exhaust seats so inspect closely
also obviously check guides- especially the two center exhaust guides
price out your seat and guide work and compare with new heads
if new valves go to the 2.14 x 1.81 to get new seat materiel - personally on a stock rebuild and under half inch valve lift I cut down the valve and use a 30 degree seat on the intakes
put it where the current top cut is- you can go too big a valve on a stock type motor or not- what says the forum
hand blending the bottom cut yourself pays off or if you want you can use the porting templets- but maybe not for this build
new springs? do these have dampners? if not new springs for sure- dampners then check them- new springs if going to much more lift
viton stem seals on the parts list
can you give the deck height on all four corners- how far the piston is down at TDC? just use a dial caliper if big differences you are looking at getting the block decked
check for big chamfers around the bores
nice headers
the pistons mentioned above would work with your heads
measure the thickness of the castings where the outside head bolts go- you can tell if the heads have been cut and if so evenly
also obviously check guides- especially the two center exhaust guides
price out your seat and guide work and compare with new heads
if new valves go to the 2.14 x 1.81 to get new seat materiel - personally on a stock rebuild and under half inch valve lift I cut down the valve and use a 30 degree seat on the intakes
put it where the current top cut is- you can go too big a valve on a stock type motor or not- what says the forum
hand blending the bottom cut yourself pays off or if you want you can use the porting templets- but maybe not for this build
new springs? do these have dampners? if not new springs for sure- dampners then check them- new springs if going to much more lift
viton stem seals on the parts list
can you give the deck height on all four corners- how far the piston is down at TDC? just use a dial caliper if big differences you are looking at getting the block decked
check for big chamfers around the bores
nice headers
the pistons mentioned above would work with your heads
measure the thickness of the castings where the outside head bolts go- you can tell if the heads have been cut and if so evenly
Artis
Well-Known Member
ok, another question - how much power this engine produce, with these heads?
Read about emissions regulations after 71'. Theres no way this engine produces less than 300hp or is?
Read about emissions regulations after 71'. Theres no way this engine produces less than 300hp or is?
Last edited:
miller
Well-Known Member
I've never been into one of those 'late' motors, 70 and up, so I have no idea what parts are in it. That being said...
Ask yourself, what you want out of it, to do what, and the big key, how much money you want to spend. Bottom line is $$$ equals horsepower...period.
That block can take any part you want to shove in it. Parts you use, will determine what it does. Be realistic about it, for yourself.
Ask yourself, what you want out of it, to do what, and the big key, how much money you want to spend. Bottom line is $$$ equals horsepower...period.
That block can take any part you want to shove in it. Parts you use, will determine what it does. Be realistic about it, for yourself.
Artis
Well-Known Member
My target is 450-500hp, for street use and pump gas.
wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
Think what a stock HP made or a 390 HP six pack gross
late motors were down to the 250-260 range net with all accessories
so jumping to a real 450 500 takes a lot of work/ $$$ even starting with a high compression motor- now do you want to buy the gas for one?
is this a daily driver
then high 6 pack compression is not cost effective
and is this a heavy car?
build a high torque monster
if low compression a big cam with stock heads kills your low end and does not give you much more top end- needs headers and heads and low gears and loose converter
so the big question is how do you want to drive your ride?
late motors were down to the 250-260 range net with all accessories
so jumping to a real 450 500 takes a lot of work/ $$$ even starting with a high compression motor- now do you want to buy the gas for one?
is this a daily driver
then high 6 pack compression is not cost effective
and is this a heavy car?
build a high torque monster
if low compression a big cam with stock heads kills your low end and does not give you much more top end- needs headers and heads and low gears and loose converter
so the big question is how do you want to drive your ride?
moper
Well-Known Member
I think you already have a hodge-podge engine there. A '74 model passenger car build should be a cast crank, with 452 heads. An assembly of March could be a '73 or '74 build up because IIRC production shut down in May 2prep for the '74 model production. With 906s it looks like they might have swapped just the lower end. It could be a forged crank, but the majority of passenger cars were cast at that point. The up side is you can internally balance a cast crank engine for a few bucks more ad there's all benefits from doing so.
The power level - 450 is pretty easy, but will take a larger cam to do with stock port heads. With some port work, it's not hard to reach the 450-500 level with a street-type camshaft. I'd suggest the KB hypereutectic pistons (flat top), a "level 2" porting with a performance 5 angle valve job and some stainless performance valves. If the rest is all done right and tuned, a cam in the 230* @ .050 should land in that 450-500hp range.
The power level - 450 is pretty easy, but will take a larger cam to do with stock port heads. With some port work, it's not hard to reach the 450-500 level with a street-type camshaft. I'd suggest the KB hypereutectic pistons (flat top), a "level 2" porting with a performance 5 angle valve job and some stainless performance valves. If the rest is all done right and tuned, a cam in the 230* @ .050 should land in that 450-500hp range.
wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
B 4 you put money into 40 year old heads check the ccs in both end chambers
rebuilders use belt sanders which always take off more from one end or the other
I may have said to measure the thickness of the castings at the bolts on the exhaust size and write it down
In a perfect world they wold all be the same
I would use one of the KB hyper reverse deflector pistons with the bump that fills the open chamber- there are two for different compression
get your cc's firts and hopefully your current deck clerances
rebuilders use belt sanders which always take off more from one end or the other
I may have said to measure the thickness of the castings at the bolts on the exhaust size and write it down
In a perfect world they wold all be the same
I would use one of the KB hyper reverse deflector pistons with the bump that fills the open chamber- there are two for different compression
get your cc's firts and hopefully your current deck clerances
BSB67
Well-Known Member
Artis
Well-Known Member
About budget. Things cost what they cost. In the end I want fresh 440 engine, with some extra hp.
Im thinking about 3-4k $, where 1k is in gaskets, water&oil pumps, bearings/rings etc.
Im thinking about 3-4k $, where 1k is in gaskets, water&oil pumps, bearings/rings etc.
BSB67
Well-Known Member
I suggest that you start pulling together a list of what you'll need and what stuff cost. You can get real close on costs without knowing exact part numbers for everything. This will give you the big picture, and then you can start making decisions from there. Generally speaking, you'll be hard pressed to rebuild the motor and get to your hp goal with a $4,000 budget.
If I wanted to make more power sooner than later, and had a $3,000 - $4,000 budget, this is what I would do: If it had/has decent oil pressure, don't touch the short block other than a cam and lifters. Put the rest of the money in really good 915 heads (hint, if they cost less than $1,500 they are probably not really good), or aftermarket aluminum heads. Finish it up with a decent induction system (some of which you might already have) and good exhaust system. You'll blow through $4,000 pretty quick.
You'll probably be in the 375 hp range, but relative to the 250 hp you have now, it will feel like 450. An honest 375 hp in full street trim will reward you with a low 13 second et at 102 to 104 mph.
I've done this before and it really does work out nicely.
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