440 thermostat?

[themechanic]

Have you read this article?

http://www.usradiator.com/blog/66-69-mopar-b-body-upgrade/

 

[wyrmrider]

more trivia
the 361-413 "industrial" engines used a water pump housing an Robertshaw thermostat that closed the bypass when t stat opened
many latemotors do this
for a good reason
soooo
put a manual heater valve in your bypass hose and close it when you start getting hot
works
incidentally putting a standard B/RB t-stat in a motorhome will overheat
the truck t-stat will not work in the stock b/rb housing
someone who makes housings could make one with a bypass ckosing (the second disc)
t-stat

 

[andyf]

View attachment 972956 View attachment 972957
Update. Since my last post I’ve:
Added overflow tank.
Added EMP thermostat.
Added flowkooler pump.
Added lower Radiator hose internal spring.
Added 14 1” holes with flappers to shroud.
Tried water wetter with distilled water.
Used foam to seal radiator to rad support.

And nothing. Maybe 2 degree drop on highway. Idle to 25 mph- 195 degrees
Over that on hwy at 70mph- 208. Only 84 degrees outside.
Possible causes?:
-My (2) 1320 cfm fans too small (12” pullers with 95amp alternator). Temp does come down from 210 to 195 but only when at idle so the fans are working better than high speed air flow.
- my 727 trans has a 2000 stall converter with 3:55 gears. Engine rpm is 3200 at 70 mph. Should I have a trans cooler?
-air fuel ratio is 13 at cruise so not lean.
-timing is 18-34 so not too advanced.
-using ported vacuum advance. Timing is 44 degrees in park at 3000 rpm when hooked up.
Any suggestions???

You're putting a lot of work into that project. If you're willing to try another test then remove the electric fans from the car and take it for a drive on the freeway. Don't just unplug them, physically remove the fans and see how it works. My guess is that something about the fans is blocking airflow on the freeway. The fans are working fine at idle so that isn't a problem. If you can't easily remove the fans then see if you can rig up a go pro or something in front of the radiator. Tie some yarn on the grill and drive on the freeway. The yarn should be pointing back towards the radiator. If the yarn is flapping around then the airflow is bouncing off the radiator.

 

[Sonny]

I did not go back and read the entire post or search but have you tried the internal spring in the lower radiator hose?

Yes added one.

 

[Sonny]

Have you read this article?

http://www.usradiator.com/blog/66-69-mopar-b-body-upgrade/

I have now. It’s a good one. Thanks!

 

[Sonny]

more trivia
the 361-413 "industrial" engines used a water pump housing an Robertshaw thermostat that closed the bypass when t stat opened
many latemotors do this
for a good reason
soooo
put a manual heater valve in your bypass hose and close it when you start getting hot
works
incidentally putting a standard B/RB t-stat in a motorhome will overheat
the truck t-stat will not work in the stock b/rb housing
someone who makes housings could make one with a bypass ckosing (the second disc)
t-stat

My 440 doesn’t have a bypass hose?

 

[Sonny]

Here is a pick of the original water pump housing that came on the engine vs the aluminum one I added this year. Note the center supply hole is smaller in the original one. I wonder if I’m moving the water too fast to cool it? The temp only comes down at idle (slow pump speed) and goes up the faster the engine spins. Maybe the rv 440 wants slower flow thorough the radiator?

 

[CompSyn]

After reading thorough this whole thread: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html

I'm using the stock cast iron water pump housing and this A1-Cardone water pump P/N #58-173. Can be had for $37.79 at RockAuto

Notice how the impeller is pretty close to factory and...

MADE IN USA... USA... USA... USA.. USA...

 

[Sonny]

After reading thorough this whole thread: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html

I'm using the stock cast iron water pump housing and this A1-Cardone water pump P/N #58-173. Can be had for $37.79 at RockAuto

Notice how the impeller is pretty close to factory and...

MADE IN USA... USA... USA... USA.. USA...

View attachment 974782

Thanks for this article! My complaints are very similar. I’m putting the stock iron housing back on tonight along with the stock pump. Hope this works! Sonny

 

[wyrmrider]

get a pated pup and all the rest that is necessary- lotsof hints above

 

[Wietse]

Too fast flow through the cooler does not help either, it will not have time to cool down before it is going back to the engine.
I read many articles where they say these aluminium radiators appear to be a good upgrade while they actually do not dissipate heat that well due to air flow restriction or insufficient cooling surface.

The difference in looking at idle staying cool with the fans compared to highway driving and having air flow from driving speed cannot really be compared by looking at the air flow "source" alone.
At idle there is no load, so minor heat dissipation required, while at the highway there is engine load and thus more heat that needs to be removed.

With the engine at idle the thermostat should actually be slightly opened to allow a part of the coolant to flow through the radiator and then gets mixed with the circulating water in the engine block to go another round through the engine.
(keep in mind that the thermostat sees/controls the outlet water temperature)
At that time the outlet from the radiator should not be that hot, if it is hot it means the radiator is not performing well and therefore the thermostat will be already quite far open to regulate more cooling water to make a pass through the radiator.
Adding load to the engine, increasing heat, will rapidly show the under-performance of the cooler in that case.

 

[8formulas]

When I put a 180 degree Robert Shaw stat in my 440, it made it very clear to me to get it the hell outta there. Didn't like it. I put a robert shaw 160 in it. My 440 is VERY happy now.

 

[Sonny]

When I put a 180 degree Robert Shaw stat in my 440, it made it very clear to me to get it the hell outta there. Didn't like it. I put a robert shaw 160 in it. My 440 is VERY happy now.

Interesting...

 

[Wietse]

Interesting...

Indeed!

https://www.allpar.com/fix/engines/cooling-system-about.html

 

[Sonny]

Update. I think I made progress?
Previously at 84 degrees outside:
Idle to 25 mph- 195 degrees
on hwy at 70mph- 208 degrees

today 90 degrees outside:
Idle to 25 mph 182!
Highway 196!
However, I got off the highway, sat at a light, put the car in neutral thinking the pump would run faster but the temp soared to 212. Took 2 miles at 45 to get Back down to 195, then in my driveway back down to 190.
Seems to cool down faster in gear vs in neutral when stopped. Normal?
here’s what I did:
1. Replaced the 440 source water pump housing with the original RV housing.
2. Put the Milodon 180 thermostat back in.
3. Installed the Napa stock water pump.
Definitely improvements noticed especially with hotter conditions outside.
With a 3 speed 727 trans running with 3:55 gears, I am going to add a trans cooler. Should I run separate or in series with radiator? Instructions say in series is best.
Thanks for all your input!!!

 

[Joe66satellite]

Those are not high flow. They all have the same 1.125" opening. The Robertshaw or EMP/Stewart are 1 7/16". The difference in flow is significant.

 

[Joe66satellite]

Those are not high flow. They all have the same 1.125" opening. The Robertshaw or EMP/Stewart are 1 7/16". The difference in flow is significant.

Darn phone, can you post a link to that thermostat I need a higher flow here in Vegas thank you

 

[Demonic]

Ugh. They went up slightly. Now 37.- at Summit. This is equal to a factory 67 and earlier thermostat. It did cure all my problems. Now I'm 70 mph on the highway with the AC on and no worries. Here you go...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...dBbNAtZrb5YhuCm_hmZQFYw0T4LfRkeBoCQIkQAvD_BwE

 

[wyrmrider]

florida
100 plate cooler with 1/2 in and out about 11x11 square
1/2 inch oil proff hose, route carefully and away from ex
if you have factory 3/8 thats the minimum 5/16 is very restrictive
throw an asdpter and filter in the trans to cooler line
if you do the quart bottle fill test and put a presssure gauge at the tranny output you will see an amazing increase in flow and an amazing drop in backpressure
take the load off the radiator

 

[Sonny]

Update. I think I made progress?
Previously at 84 degrees outside:
Idle to 25 mph- 195 degrees
on hwy at 70mph- 208 degrees

today 90 degrees outside:
Idle to 25 mph 182!
Highway 196!
However, I got off the highway, sat at a light, put the car in neutral thinking the pump would run faster but the temp soared to 212. Took 2 miles at 45 to get Back down to 195, then in my driveway back down to 190.
Seems to cool down faster in gear vs in neutral when stopped. Normal?
here’s what I did:
1. Replaced the 440 source water pump housing with the original RV housing.
2. Put the Milodon 180 thermostat back in.
3. Installed the Napa stock water pump.
Definitely improvements noticed especially with hotter conditions outside.
With a 3 speed 727 trans running with 3:55 gears, I am going to add a trans cooler. Should I run separate or in series with radiator? Instructions say in series is best.
Thanks for all your input!!!

View attachment 975620

Back at it today. So frustrating. 90 outside. Added an in series trans cooler. Still 210 on highway. Swapped my primary jets from 62s (13.2 afr) to 65s thinking I’m lean at cruise and since my plugs were white (cars faster but not cooler). Once it gets to 210 it just can’t get back down. It starts at 195 on highway but increases 2 degrees per mile. Under 50 mph it’s 180 all day long. Got home and trans cooler is warm to touch but not hot like radiator. I guess the new 12x12 trans cooler is blocking some airflow??? I guess I’ll completely bypass the radiator tonight as others have suggested and see if temp comes down. If not then what? My radiator is a 1 year old champion 3 row 26”. That’s all I have left to replace!