440 Valvetrain Issues.....Questions

[threewood]

I was thinking I paid 700$ for my Harland Sharp 1.6s But they are needle bearing rockers. Looking back I hope I don't regret that, I have heard bad stories of needle bearings coming apart. I'll probably pull the every couple years/ 10,000 miles for a checkup.

I looked long and hard before choosing the Crane as they looked to be simple but robust. The set of Hughes are close to $800 shipped. No needle bearings in the body but roller tip. They look very nice. I considered HS rockers but heard several people say they needed to be shimmed to correct geometry, plus I wanted to stay away from needle bearings.

 

[Glenwood]

Just about to install cranes on the new sidewinder heads as soon as the cometics and pushrods arrive. Keenly interested in what the cause is.

 

[miller]

Okay. Never messed with the like. Have messed with burned up/getting hot parts.

Aluminum heads...on the push rod ends that got hot, yeah they did, wonder if there's a valve lash thing going on there. Know aluminum parts 'grow', when they get some temp.

Yeah, that's 2 cents worth.

 

[threewood]

Okay. Never messed with the like. Have messed with burned up/getting hot parts.

Aluminum heads...on the push rod ends that got hot, yeah they did, wonder if there's a valve lash thing going on there. Know aluminum parts 'grow', when they get some temp.

Yeah, that's 2 cents worth.

Been lashing them .006" int / .008" exh cold. The others seem fine and the lash on the #8 and #2 were still close.

On both banks I ran a wire down the rocker shaft oil feed holes (#2 and #4 studs) to see if there was an impairment. ...front oil galley hole is open in the head, stops at the block. Rear oil galley hole goes straight on down into the block, both sides the same.

 

[69 GTX]

Hmm shouldn't they be open at both ends? Bad head gasket?

 

[threewood]

Hmm shouldn't they be open at both ends? Bad head gasket?

That's why i posted it, I'm not sure. But in any event there is no issue on the left bank with the same oiling setup.

Edit....nope, only a rear oil feed galley. Pic of my block....

 

[Cranky]

There's only one oil feed from the block on each bank but the heads are made with 2 so they can be used on either side....

 

[threewood]

Pulled the #8 valve locks/keepers. The locks are galled on the edge but the center looks fine so I'm not sure what's up. retainers look good, valve stems look normal. I am also able to rotate the valves in the guides easily. Anybody see anything weird?

 

[threewood]

And I contacted Crane by phone. The tech said he sent my pictures to the engineers and will get back to me when they decide what is going on.

 

[Cranky]

The edges of the locks look worn and so do the valves. Might just be the pic but everything should have good crisp edges.

 

[lewtot184]

i think too much faith is put into those iron rockers. they're something that take their roots back to the '50's. back then there were no .500"+ cams, no 400+lb springs and no aggressive lobe profiles as we see today. I started using those cranes back in the '60's and they had long term issues with mild lobes and less than 300lbs pressure. the scrub pattern isn't easy to set up either. folks think they're going a simpler route but it's the farthest from the truth. I've set up isky rockers on .550"-.640" lift cams and compared to a much easier to set up roller tip they were garbage. I keep a couple of sets of cranes around but believe me they will be used with limits and knowing the clock is ticking on them once they're fired up.

 

[69 GTX]

That's what I thought, pieces look like they are cast instead of machined. I know this has been a problem area on Stealth heads, but you said they had been replaced.

 

[threewood]

That's what I thought, pieces look like they are cast instead of machined. I know this has been a problem area on Stealth heads, but you said they had been replaced.

The locks? Those are direct from Hughes. The retainers are Comp Cams pieces.

 

[threewood]

i think too much faith is put into those iron rockers. they're something that take their roots back to the '50's. back then there were no .500"+ cams, no 400+lb springs and no aggressive lobe profiles as we see today. I started using those cranes back in the '60's and they had long term issues with mild lobes and less than 300lbs pressure. the scrub pattern isn't easy to set up either. folks think they're going a simpler route but it's the farthest from the truth. I've set up isky rockers on .550"-.640" lift cams and compared to a much easier to set up roller tip they were garbage. I keep a couple of sets of cranes around but believe me they will be used with limits and knowing the clock is ticking on them once they're fired up.

It's a damn shame if they cannot get 60 year old technology to work or even last over a year. I have an original set of iron rockers still going on my 318 poly, no wear but I had them bushed.

I hope Crane has me send them back so they can test the hardness and see why they failed prematurely.

 

[65Fury440]

Hey OP, I run these Harlan copies from Mancini, lots of 6600 rpm shifts, hold lash perfect, no problems.
http://www.manciniracing.com/ben16alro.html

 

[BSB67]

Solid lifter cam. Installed height is 1.875" and max lift is .750" / max coil bind is .785" and I double checked all installed heights when setting the heads up. My cam has max lift of .564".

These max lift and coil bind numbers seem odd.

 

[BSB67]

There is so much wrong going on in that valve train, I cannot help to think that you are missing the elephant in the room. Burnt push rods, tore up rockers, keepers pulling through. You need to find your problem, or problems.

The reality is that Mopar valve train is pretty robust and your stuff is pretty mild to have these kind of problems.

 

[moper]

x2^

 

[dvw]

Been lashing them .006" int / .008" exh cold.

What is the hot spec of the cam? Those numbers suggest .012-.014" hot assuming an iron block. That seems prety tight.
Doug

 

[threewood]

These max lift and coil bind numbers seem odd.

There is so much wrong going on in that valve train, I cannot help to think that you are missing the elephant in the room. Burnt push rods, tore up rockers, keepers pulling through. You need to find your problem, or problems.

The reality is that Mopar valve train is pretty robust and your stuff is pretty mild to have these kind of problems.

All rockers, both banks have wear on the tips. Only #8E and #2E have heated pushrods. How is the pass side getting less oil to the ends? Rockers oil passages are clean, oil holes in shaft are clean. Unless one of the rockers was way oversized and allowing a drop in oil pressure on the pass side rockers I don't know what to think.

Rocker shaft oiling for both sides is from the same cam journal, correct?