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'68 Coronet project EFI/4 speed conversion up and running!

Right!?! MIND BLOWN!

Well, kinda more like duh, of course. Hydraulic pressure acting on a piston which moves and contacts the surface of a spinning object to slow it down.

I do like the hydraulic throwout bearing. Shifting is easy and smooth. The main reason I went that route was to dispense with the linkage and welding a Z bar bracket onto the frame rail. Plus, a hydraulic fork/actuator setup made less sense than the bearing since the pedal acts directly on the bearing whereas a hydraulic fork is in between the pedal and bearing. Why bother with that and then keep the mechanical bearing?
 
Plus, a hydraulic fork/actuator setup made less sense than the bearing since the pedal acts directly on the bearing whereas a hydraulic fork is in between the pedal and bearing. Why bother with that and then keep the mechanical bearing?
Yes indeed!
The way our AP TO bearings work is a Direct--><--Connection to the pressure plate...
:lol:
 
Right!?! MIND BLOWN!!:BangHead: :realcrazy::bananaweed::fool:
When my car was behaving as though the clutch wasn't fully disengaged, I thought it was a problem with the hydraulic throwout bearing. It's SO counterintuitive in that it does NOT have an air gap between the bearing surface and the diaphragm spring tips! Making my concerns worse was my failure to make sure the previous mechanical TO bearing had enough of an air gap, which meant that it was soon spinning all the time and rapidly wore to making noise. The American Powertrain hydraulic throwout bearing is designed to REST (KEY word! as you wrote) under no pressure, on the spring tips. This means no "slop" and a very precise feel to the pedal. The AP rep said many new cars are like that. People prefer the feel as well he said.
Maybe the bearings are made of "unobtanium" to hold up to spinning constantly, but I finally accepted that as truth.
I got lucky that whatever was "rubbing" on my dual disc McLeod, or "whatever" was making it barely creep in gear, clutch pedal all the way down, and act during shifting like the clutch was not fully disengaged, I have no idea (I wish I did) self-resolved. It was installed by a shop, and it was a steep learning curve, and I wasn't looking forward to pulling it all apart to figure it out.
Now I can get my HitMaster launch control system dialed in for the launch, and start making adjustments to my new traction and suspension components!
...if I ever get the time to go to the track...:rolleyes:
Just finished installing and testing my Hydramax clutch with hydraulic TO. It now works great after some tweaks here and there.
I had to adjust mounting point for the pressing rod to get the correct length of movement incl ratio. The way I first had it didn't give me full movement.
I'm surprised that you have some creeping when pressed down completely. My clutch disengages in full but as you mentioned, it might be that the twindisc acts differently?
 
I'm surprised that you have some creeping when pressed down completely. My clutch disengages in full but as you mentioned, it might be that the twindisc acts differently?
The most likely culprit, since I haven't really made any changes, was something rubbing just enough in the twin disc sandwich. I will have a greater understanding of it all when I have hands on, say to do a disc change. I "get" the concept and mechanics of it all, but I was perplexed as to what could have been causing it to seem like it was not fully disengaged. I haven't had the time to bring what amounts to a $20k added investment in parts and labor to the track, and only a couple of local shows, so not having to spend time diagnosing what should have been a turn key job was really aggravating me, and then "poof" all better.
 
Been a couple months since the last post here, time for an update.

I'll start by saying that today was a crappy day for me and this car, had to get towed home about 30 minutes away from my house. Turned out to be a bad ground wire from the ignition box but it took me all afternoon to figure it out, not to mention an entire day of missed work and a lot of aggravation.

Was fairly nice around here, not too hot, overcast and less humidity than normal so I decided to take the Coronet in to work. I had been driving it a lot recently without any real issues and do try to take it out when ever it makes sense. Get in, turn the key and head down the road.

About 25 minutes into the ride I was coasting down a hill after getting off the highway and the car just shut off like it ran out of fuel. I installed a new gas gauge recently but I wasn't sure it was reading right. After rolling to a stop, I hopped out, took the tank cap off and shook the car hoping hear gas sloshing around - check. I even shone my phone light down there to verify and I could definitely see some gas in there - double check.

I've had some stalling issues before but the car would always restart after sitting for a little bit. Not this time! I fiddled with some Sniper parameters to see if I could effect some change but nothing clicked. All the fuess were good. Maybe it was a heat soak issue? The throttle body was really hot so I let it sit for a while hoping that if it cooled off it would fire. 30 minutes later, still no dice.

Eventually a cop pulled up behind me. He came over to me and I explained what I thought was going on. He was cool and let me keep trying to get it started. He waited there for a long time but after about 45 minutes he said I need to get a move on being on a busy road and all. At that point I had been trying to get it started for almost two hours. With no glimmer of hope I knew I had to throw in the towel and call AAA. Luckily I have a Plus membership which gets you 100 miles free towing. Besides a being an already frustrating day it would have been an expensive one too without that.

Tow truck comes fairly quickly for once and gets me home no problem, even enjoyed talking with the driver. Unfortunately our driveway has an unusually steep grade off the street and the flatbed was dragging the rear frame to the point of bridging the drive wheels. He made several attempts to get up the driveway both forward and backward with no luck. We tried using boards under the wheels to raise the rear up but even then it was still an exercise in futility. Understandably not wanting to get stuck loaded up with a car on his flatbed, he dropped it off in the street across from my house. At this point I'm really scratching my head wondering how I'm going to Macgyver this one and get the car in the garage.

I went on the Holley Forums looking for info. I started a thread and uploaded data logs hoping one of the regulars would chine in and help. Right away our own AndyF replies to me and after a few messages back and forth suggests the ignition box might be the culprit.

Luckily I just happened to have an extra Holley ignition box that's going in my Duster. (I must be a masochist) Grabbed it out of it's box, unplugged the harness from the old one and into the new one and sure as **** no "on" light - huh, that ain't right but now we're getting somewhere at least. I figured both boxes can't be bad so it's most likely a fault the wiring.

Sure enough, the second I look down at the harness, I could see the main ground wire for the ignition box had pulled out the back of the terminal inside the connector. Plugged the connector in, jammed the wire back into the terminal, box light comes on and the car starts right up. Fuuu****KKKK! Pulled the connector off again, crimped a new terminal on and drove the car into the garage as if nothing happened. Total waste of a day.

Just to be clear, this had zero to do with the Sniper, ignition box or fuel pump, all of those are working just fine. And honestly I really can't be too hard on myself for the wire coming out. The ignition box is under the battery tray and I did my best to try and route the wiring in a reasonable way. The harness is not too short but it clearly must have had some strain on it and perhaps those last 25 minutes of vibrations dislodged the wire just enough to shut the whole party down. I may have inadvertently yanked on it while messing with other wires in the near vicinity so yeah, my fault for being a little careless but hey **** happens, take it in stride.

Just a side not about all this - I was definitely not in the right frame of mind to figure that ground wire out on the side of the road and honestly the ignition box didn't cross my mind until Andy suggested it. I was convinced it was a fuel issue but once I got it home, I cracked the fuel inlet and there was fuel coming out indicating a spark problem. This wasn't really even an actual no-spark condition either but just a bad ground that caused the ignition box to cut out.

Tough day but at least it ended on a positive note. Guess I'll need to go back over my wiring again before I can get back to any real deep tuning. Thanks again to AndyF for the suggestions over on the Holley Forums. Still a believer in this EFI stuff, works just fine when it has good power and ground!
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'Til next time.
 
Beautiful car and glad you got it sorted out. It can be stressful to debug stuff when you're sitting on the side of the road. Double check all of your connections and maybe even add some solder to the critical ones next time you have access to them.
 
I had to have my fury towed once because the fuse for the injector driver harness popped because the wire started rubbing on the intake and wore a spot. I bought noid test lights and even sent the ecu back to fast before I figured that one out...
 
Time for an update on the car here. Been driving it a bunch lately and it's actually been pretty good. Since coming home on the hook last month it's been back out on several longer round trips of at least 30-40 miles one way and has not skipped a beat. Even seems like the mileage has improved.

First of all, I'm going to give myself a little pat on the back and say the EFI is pretty well dialed in right now. "Building" a tune in the software was a turning point in this process for me. It was a good learning experience and illuminated several things that initially were not very clear to me when I first started messing with this system. In all honesty I wouldn't have been able to get to where I am now without diving in to the software tables.

Unfortunately, I think there are plenty of people out there who believe the "plug and play" advertising line which is misleading because users really need take an active role in it. For me it was well worth the time and effort of building custom timing and fuel tables for my specific application because this car runs better, smoother and quieter than it has since I've owned it. Acceleration is good from a stop or from a roll. No random shutting off and getting stuck on the side of the road 30 miles from home... basically no real drivability issues to speak of, just get in and go.

Sure, there are some minor bugs with the EFI that still need to worked out; cold start is not perfect, usually takes 2-3 tries but hot starts are fine so it's close, just needs more trial and error tweaking of the startup parameters. There is also a spot where the ECU is adding more fuel than most of the other areas on the fuel map but it's over 4,000 rpm where the engine does not spend a lot of time. Sometimes the throttle can be a little touchy at low speeds but I'm used to it now. Other than that, it's all good.

There are some non-EFI things that will need to be addressed. Seems like the steering box bolts like to come loose which is bad. A few weeks ago the steering wheel was suddenly turned way left for no obvious reason and it sounded like the pump was radiating noise through the entire column. While checking things out, I grabbed the steering shaft, turned it over and could see the entire steering box moving around. WhaaaaTF? Cranked the bolts down first with a regular 1/2" ratchet but after another few times out they were loose again. Second time they were tightened with an impact, so far so good.

This car definitely needs shocks. Last year the suspension was rebuilt with all new parts front and rear including some basic upgrades. What that did was make it painfully clear the shocks are not so great. Mechanically they are OK but they just don't seem to do anything. Not sure when I will pull the trigger on shocks but it's on the top of the list.

I've also mentioned this previously but the car could use better brakes. They work OK for the most part and seem to be better when they warm up. Probably don't want to get involved with rear discs. We'll see. Maybe some new rear shoes will help or perhaps better pads?

Sadly, the old 383 is still dripping oil. It's not losing much but just enough to leave a constant spot on my garage floor. I believe the solution is to get a new oil pan with flat rails because everything else is dry. I did try to straighten out all the bolt holes but guess I either didn't do a great job or the pan is just worn beyond it's useful service life. I'm thinking it's the latter.

Unfortunately the leak is compounded by an erratic oil pressure gauge which often reads zero. This a brand new Speedhut gauge with a modern pressure transducer. The gauge works but the wires are bundled with the rest of the dash harness and somehow get pulled which seems to short the signal. When it happens I can reach under the dash and move them so the gauge reads correctly but it's annoying and somewhat alarming when you happen to look up at 65 mph and see no oil pressure.

As far as the other gauges, the gas gauge "sort of" works. That one I'm having a real hard time with. The gauge is correctly programmed with the sender so maybe that part needs to come out for some bench testing. Oddly it reads correctly right after a WOT hit but then it goes back to full. I'm just resigned to putting gas in it more frequently to keep from running out.

I do think the wiring will have to come out one more time to take care of all these little BS issues but again, that's a winter time deal. Plan is to keep driving it as much as possible until weather prohibits it.

Here's a few pics from one of my recent trips. I drove to a cruise put on by one of my friends in The Bronx, NY which is about 35 miles from where I am in Southern CT. This was the night after Hurricane Ida ran us over and dumped about 7 inches of rain on the area within about 4 hours. Next evening was a little nicer but lots roads where still closed due to flooding. Made it down without any problems though.
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Pic of the problematic gauges at 60mph on my way back home. Looks like they're all working which is odd, probably just a coincidence. I do know the gas tank was actually full at this moment because I had just filled it up. Don't try this at home kids, only professionals on a closed course can take a pic with their phone while driving a stick.
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Till next time.
 
Looks Great! Its like we built almost the same car. I went a few different ways and feel your pain! I started with a 4 speed bucket seat car so got to skip that fun, about the wiring I went with the painless wiring system full harness and also had to integrate the holley sniper stealth and hyperspark system but i also went with the Dakota Digital RTX Rally dash as well, oh and a 1 wire alternator. After getting the adapter for the Dak Dig to read the Holley EFI inputs i only had to hook up the oil presser gauge. Got my tank and in tank pump through TANKS Inc. (Heard alot of stories about the inline pump in the Holley kit having big time issues) and everything hooked up great! Talk about a bunch of left over wires!! I was originally worried about hooking up redundant systems and multiple readings messing something up but it has (SO FAR) been great! Hope it continues to run well for you! One other thing I did was wrap my headers (TTI 1 7/8) I wanted to keep my under hood temps down as much as I could because of the efi electronics figured it could not hurt..
 
Couple updates on this project before winter sets in.

The other day I gave the Hurst Competition Plus 4084 shifter handle one more chance to see if it would work - nope! Using that particular stick basically renders the car undrivable. There's no adjustment that will make it not hit the dash. I'm not talking full throttle bang-shifts but just normal driving. You have to palm it into first and third which is awkward. And, for whatever reason, it just won't stay in gear without holding the handle in place. One quick drive was all it took to put the stock "pretzel" style stick back in. It's a night and day difference. That seems crazy to me but it is what it it is. I really wanted the 4084 shifter to work, the long, flat handle just looks so cool sticking out of the console but it just wasn't meant to be.
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Also, finally pulled the trigger on shocks to round out the suspension upgrades. I chose QA1 "Stocker Star" single adjustable all around. These replaced the long Mopar blue shocks in the rear and a set of KYBs in the front. Those shocks were OK I suppose. They were not leaking or anything was just wanting a little more "theoretical" performance and blingy looks.

First, the QA1s are really nice pieces and seem to fit well. The fronts have 18 adjustment positions and the rears have 12. To start, both the fronts and rears were set in the middle of the adjustment ranges so 9 and 6 respectively.
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First drive around the 'hood, they were too stiff. After that, I dialed both fore and aft down two notches but have yet to take it for a ride. Hopefully that will be a little more forgiving.

Feels weird to not have much left to do on this car. I have to re-do some wiring and figure out why the passenger front seat won't slide back but that's really it. The EFI is running great and the car drives really well.

Two things I do want to do at some point are to install a bulge hood and maybe get some "period correct" mag wheels. I like Cragars in front and a set of chromed steelies out back. The painted wheels and dog dish caps are cool for now though. Maybe some time next year.

Thanks for following along.
 
Be careful, When that happens to me I tend to sell and start over on another.:D

Ha! My Duster is in pieces so I am covered in that department for a while. Honestly, I've never had a car that I built myself, sorted out over time and then just drove. It's a nice feeling.
 
It's 55 degrees here today so I took the Dodge out for a spin. I have not driven it since Mid-December. Was good to get behind the wheel and just drive it. Sounds corny but it did put me in a better frame of mind after a long week. Yeah, there's probably still salt residue on the roads and there's melting snow puddles everywhere but whatever, I'll clean it off at some point.

It was started briefly back in January but it just idled for a bit to get it up to temp and shut it off. Started on the 2nd try today though and is running pretty well at the moment.
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That's all!
 
it did put me in a better frame of mind after a long week
Not only does that always happen when I drive my Roadrunner, but there's a couple of driving events that the Roadrunner is key to, and wouldn't be the same otherwise:
Anyone who likes to fish may know one of the BEST parts of fishing is when I am so intensely focused on fishing, all of the "mental noise" and bullshit gets pushed aside...SAME thing when I am lined up at the race track. NOTHING BUT me and my machine, and the lights on that tree.
AND
Cruisin the Coast is such a classic car-centric event, many people in the same mental "space" as I, and nothing to do but cruise in our cars and go to the various events for A WHOLE WEEK! That's the closest thing to a Time Machine I may ever find.
 
Wow, over a year since I've updated this thread. Got several updates here, I'll spread them out over a few consecutive posts.

First off, I did manage to get a lot of seat time in this car since last February. I mean, not to the point of daily driver status but I definitely put several thousand miles on it. Made many long trips in all types of weather except for heavy rain. Drove it back and forth to work on nice days pretty regularly, took the kids for ice cream, to baseball, a bunch of cruise-ins and car shows, etc.

The car ran OK for the most part but towards the end of last year the tune had really fallen off. The A/F ratio was reading two points rich no matter what I did. I knew was hearing at least two exhaust leaks but it turned out to be way worse than I had realized - almost every joint was sucking air and the ECU was just dumping fuel to compensate. In December it had gotten to the point where the throttle body bores were black. Time to fix the leaks.

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When I was a dealer tech., we would find exhaust leaks using compressed air and soapy water. You plug up one tail pipe, stick a rag in the other and then poke the air nozzle through with a rubber band around the trigger to hold it open. Then you spray the soapy water where you suspect a leak. Depending on the size of the leak, you'll get foam or big soap bubbles. I got all of it.

The worst was the driver's side header between the #3 & #5 cylinders, air was just pouring out as if from an open window with a fan blowing out.
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Here's the gasket. Seems like it was barely even touching the cylinder head. That's really not the gasket's fault, it wouldn't look like that if everything was flat. The reality is that this engine is suffering from the dual maladies of irregular mating surfaces and a warped header flange. I know people are going to say to get Remflex gaskets but that's no an option because they absolutely suck. BTDT. They're too thick and they crumble before they can even be used. Worthless. Moving on...
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Fromt the back - right-rear muffler and connection. Don't quote me but the bubbles coming from the muffler itself may actually be a pre-drilled hole to let condensation out.
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H pipe connection.
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Right-side adapter flange - even the bolt was leaking!
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Driver's side adapter.
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Not a fan of these clamps at all. Pretty sure these were at least partially to blame for the leaks at the joints. They become cocked when you tighten them past a certain point. Once that happens it ovals out the tubing and creates gaps between the surfaces. It's really hard not to overtighten them though because they're not effective when they're just snug either. Junk.
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Continued below.
 
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The first solution to these exhaust leaks is to cut the header flanges. Over time they warp (duh!) and cutting them allows the individual primaries a little more flex to seal. 30 seconds with a cutoff wheel and it's done. I even filed the cut edges. When I put the headers back on I noticed it was much easier to thread the bolts in which basically confirmed cutting the flanges was the right move.
IMG_5299.jpg

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Step two was to make sure these raised/welded areas that touch the cylinder head are flat. You can see how uneven they are. It's never going to be perfect...
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This is after a bit of time with some emery cloth and a flat file. A little better.
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The third step in leak prevention is Hi-temp copper RTV. I'm not normally one to use sealant for anything. Often times it does more harm than good, always makes a mess and can be difficult to clean up once dry. But since the tubing was ovaled out, I bit the bullet and used it on the joints. I didn't take pictures but I also used a shitload of it on both the header and cylinder head with the new gasket sandwiched between. I can't have any more header leaks.

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The final fix was to step up to banded clamps. These clamps are lovely polished stainless. They have more contact surface area to grip the pipe and are stepped to compensate for the slip fit. The fasteners are not part of the clamp itself so the tubing does not get crushed. The bolts get torqued to 60 ft lbs. which is a lot. Hopefully using RTV and these fancy clamps will make the leaks a thing of the past.
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Some of you might be saying "jeez, why go through all the trouble, just get it welded" - no thanks. No flex in the system and once it's welded, it ain't coming out.

More to come tomorrow.
 
I'm not very bright because I decided to tackle all the most annoying jobs at one time. Since I had to take the center link down to get the headers out, I figured I should address the constant oil leak coming from the back of the engine by replacing the original 1968 oil pan. Thankfully the rear main seal area is dry, it's the oil pan and/or gasket.

This pan has seen better days. No metal in the filter.
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My theory about the leak is that the pan rail is not straight and neither is the block. No, it's not because the pole jack is crushing it, the pan has been leaking since the day I got the car in 2018. It's the same thing that happens with the headers - the fact is, two irregular mating surfaces are not going to seal hot fluids efficiently. Over the last couple years I've tried several different gaskets and all of them leaked including the modern molded type.

I'm still a believer in the molded windage tray kind but I think they're only good on oil pans with flat rails. You can see how the seals got blown out which is most likely from me over-tightening it when trying to stop it from leaking....
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As mentioned, I ordered a new 402 pan from Mancini with a Superformance gasket. I will admit that I've used these gaskets before and they leaked. However, I attributed that to what looked like a home made windage tray I used from another motor. I should have known better, it was all bent up and a little thicker than what I thought was normal so nothing would have kept the oil in that time.

Before installing the pan, I made sure to speak with Greg from Superformance to clarify his gasket instructions which was helpful. He suggests using RTV around the edge of the pan which I've never done so I wanted to confirm exactly how he wanted it. He gave me some specific info on where and how to lay down the silicone so I can avoid a big mess.

Here's the new pan and gasket ready to go in. However...
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...before it can go on for keeps, I have to replace the oil dipstick tube that snapped off when I was taking the header off. F@ck!

As most everyone who's replaced a dispstick tube on an engine equipped with headers in the car knows, it's essentially a losing proposition. Something is going to get destroyed whether it's the block, the dipstick tube itself or something that just happened to be near the hammer when it slips out of your hand.

Knowing this, I initially tried welding the original one back together. Didn't work - I'm not that good and it's really hard to do. The tubing is thin and became work hardened where it broke. Even with the welder on the lowest setting it would still burn through. I managed to get it tacked together about halfway around but the weld was not consistent and there were still holes. It never would have survived the install anyway.

Since I had to get exhaust gaskets and various other stuffs, I ordered this $40 repro tube from Mancini's. They shipped my order out quickly which was great. The part itself is fine and seemingly correct for a restoration. You can even see where it's whittled down at the bottom of the tube to fit in the block. No matter though, still a fail.

I swear, replacing a dipstick tube is the worst job, even with the engine out of the car. My method is to use a crow's foot socket on the end of a long extension. You slip the wrench pad over the flare and pound the end of the extension until the tube seats. Prior to that, I put the tube in the freezer overnight to shrink it. When that didn't work, no amount of heat applied to the dipstick tube boss on the block would loosen it up enough to get the base of the tube in all the way. At that point it was over anyway, too much pounding had weakened the flare and it cracked. My fault for sure but still junk.

This is a brand-new dipstick tube I just paid $40 for.
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This is like the third or fourth repro tube I've had bad luck with. I don't know what it is with them but in my personal experience they are next to impossible to install. As I've stated many times, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but this job should not be that hard. Had to call up my friend for a used original that I'm getting on Sunday, hopefully I will be able to get that one seated. If that one's a no go the hole is getting threaded and plugged.

Once the dipstick tube ordeal is over, the pan can go on and I can put the steering linkage back together. Then I'm going to clean the throttle body thoroguhly, get some new spark plugs and make some new plug wires to replace all the burned ones (four!).

While under the car, I took a look at the rear suspension which had really started to creak towards the end of last year. Amazingly, everything was loose. I was pretty upset with myself but at lest it's all tightened up now. Just about every fastener had come loose - the shackle bolts, the leaf spring U-bolts, the lower shock bolts... Ugh. I have to keep better tabs on this stuff. The rear shocks were loosened one click since it was riding pretty harsh. Didn't touch the fronts though. Thankfully all the fasteners in front are still tight.

I still have a few more things to take care of, one being the oil pressure gauge wiring. It contatacted a header tube coming out of the firewall and melted so it's not reading pressure. It turns on and lights up though so hopefully it's just the wiring. One of the dash turn signal indicators is not working now either so I may have to drop the steering and take the instrument panel to fix all this stuff. Fun times. If I have to take the dash out again I may end up getting one of these Dakota Digital replacement dashes. Not cheap but really nice.

More to come.
 
I have used copper rtv for a long time on exhaust and had success, no shame in using it
 
I have used copper rtv for a long time on exhaust and had success, no shame in using it

Yeah, sometimes you have to use it. At the dealership we oftentimes used only RTV on certain tranny pans and they rarely leaked so it's not without merit. I don't recall ever having to use it on any exhaust-related parts though since most cylinder heads were aluminum and the exhaust systems mostly used T-bolt clamps with flanges. That's the way to go for sure. You can really start to understand why the car makers phased out cast iron heads - machined flat surfaces just flat-out offer better reliability.

Regardless, everything is tight now, the copper goop is insurance. Guess we'll see how well it works soon enough.
 
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