70 RR build which eng.413 or 440

[Beep!Beep!]

Hey guys just looking for experience info and help I posted a build in resto-mod forum details on the engines I have and what best combo ,with the 2 engines I have not going to try repost here but if you can help slide over and check it out thanks for any suggestions ahead of time.

 

[68Moparmaniac]

No replacement for displacement brother, 440 gets the nod from me...

 

[dvw]

413 pistons are hard to get. 440 has a much bigger bore, better flow around the intake. If you are using the stock heads the 440 heads are better. Do the 440.
Doug

 

[Nate S]

If both are right in hand I'd do the 440 if it has the steel crank. Just did a 413 and I'm happy with it too. Fewer piston choices with the 413. Once you bore it it'll only be behind a stock 440 by 20 inches. You'll want to build it like a 440 though, newer heads, windage tray, better cam etc.

 

[Beep!Beep!]

413 pistons are hard to get. 440 has a much bigger bore, better flow around the intake. If you are using the stock heads the 440 heads are better. Do the 440.
Doug

It's not that simple you have to look at the build page already new pistons and rockers on the 413 and heads are majorly ported, I first thought it was a max wedge when I bought it ,until I ran numbers, it might be a 12 to1 comp. Bearings aren't even broken in

 

[Beep!Beep!]

If both are right in hand I'd do the 440 if it has the steel crank. Just did a 413 and I'm happy with it too. Fewer piston choices with the 413. Once you bore it it'll only be behind a stock 440 by 20 inches. You'll want to build it like a 440 though, newer heads, windage tray, better cam etc.

Check out my build on resto mod forum the 413 is more like a max wedge then tell me what you think

 

[70chall440]

Both are good engines, however if it were me and all things were equal (meaning the engines are in basically the same condition) I would do the 440, more parts available, easier build overall plus its a 440 which was available in the model/year of the car.

 

[Nate S]

Check out my build on resto mod forum the 413 is more like a max wedge then tell me what you think

What are the 413 head casting numbers?

 

[Beep!Beep!]

1851509

 

[Nate S]

1851509

So they aren't max wedge heads, just heavily ported. Was thinking if they were you could fund the rest with the proceeds from selling them. Some nice hardware on there but I probably wouldn't use the heads. Tough to know how they actually flowed. So in general, if you're rebuilding, I'd go 440. Could have been stock for '70, more Cubic Inches, cheaper parts. Mix 'n' match parts after that to get what you want. The 413 used 770g pistons and the 440 used 857 so be aware of balancing issues if you use the 413 forged crank in the 440. That said I've done it without balancing and couldn't tell the difference.

 

[ruffcut]

Lots of good info here already and I would lean toward doing the 44o also as it fits the 70 model year.

 

[Beep!Beep!]

Here's the pistons in the 413 and the crank had a number stamped in it nothing stock but the block.The 440 needs a good deal more parts and work. The 413 bearings crank and rods look new as do the pistons, I was thinking about putting 906 heads on the 413? You can see how high the pistons are above the deck,name on them is Alcoa ,Jahns stamped pistons and push rods are light as a feather?oil pan and sump deepened

 

[Beep!Beep!]

The 440 has .30 over trw pistons L2295 pistons

 

[Nate S]

413 sounds better. Looks balanced. Is there a ring ridge? If not, or just little, you could hone and go for it with new rings. I’d use the 906 heads with the crane valve gear. Compression looks evil, I’d use thick head gaskets and a big cam or it’ll knock Badly.

 

[Johnpat]

No brainier,440

 

[Beep!Beep!]

413 sounds better. Looks balanced. Is there a ring ridge? If not, or just little, you could hone and go for it with new rings. I’d use the 906 heads with the crane valve gear. Compression looks evil, I’d use thick head gaskets and a big cam or it’ll knock Badly.

No ridge atop I can still see the hone pattern in the cylinder walls

 

[Nate S]

No ridge atop I can still see the hone pattern in the cylinder walls

Sounds promising. Could be a hone, some rings, cleaning and measuring away from a short block. Depends on your priorities and what you want out of it. If money is no object you can just go build whatever you want or if every drop of power is essential then go with the 440. For all the 413 naysayers remember that in 60’s form a 383 magnum was rated at 335, a 440 magnum at 375. This is 2/3 of the way in between. Those heads and valves don’t get any bigger as you add more cubes. Hotrod over the years has built both in dead stock form as well, the 383 and 440 were only 20 hp apart in that comparison.

 

[dvw]

Agreed cost is always a concern for most of us. However sometimes you need to take inventory of what you really have. The 413; The pistons aren't Alcoa. That's an aluminum company. They are Jahn's. By the the looks of them, pump gas is out of the question. Could the tops be milled? Maybe, the thickness needs to be checked. The ports on the heads are huge next to the intake. Will it seal? Is the porting any good? How about the guides and valve job? You need to pull the valves and look. It all looks like it was done decades ago. The 440; These pistons can be milled to make them flat tops. Think pump gas. How are the cylinder walls? What is the piston to wall now? How does the crank look? What cam is in the 440? What kind of shape are the heads in? It looks like both would need a timing chain set, gaskets, etc. Home honing lapping the valves, new rings, bearings, lifters, timing set, and gaskets may get it done. Perfect? Nope, but it may be feasible. Or maybe not. You need to to a lot more detective work.
Doug

 

[67MPRFAN]

All good advice from everyone who replied my question would be what's your intentions for the car if wanting to make big power then use the 413 while you build the 440 to the intended plans maybe a stroker with aluminum heads. Whatever way you decide good luck with it nice start on the RR

 

[Beep!Beep!]

I'm going to use both engines one for the beeper which is tubbed, half cage ,floor stiffened with tubing ,the picture those are 10" wide tires on 15 " cragars and the other goes in my 55 dodge truck which is on a 72 step side frame and chassis not tubbed just stock.Truck more a cruiser,road runner car show driving around shorter and occasionally I hope a trip down the 1/4 no tracks close by.Both 727 auto builds ,i have brand new tci 3500 stall converter for the car.