Ammeter ?

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

red must be with black on ignition on too, even has nothing to do with ign system

That is correct, post edited,

 

[Moparfiend]

Quick update, one issue I have found regarding the starter circuit is the following:

1. The starter yellow wire is not binding to the VBAT-red and brown wire on the ignition switch side during the cranking of the ignition switch. The red and brown are connecting as one would expect. The switch must have smoked that yellow contact open. I did this continuity test with the switch disconnected from the harness on the switch side. So I need a new switch.....and also need to know why this happened.

So whats the deal on the other side of the circuit on the yellow line?

2. The starter relay shows 110 Ohms to ground on the yellow starter contact. With the yellow wire disconnected from the starter relay the wires show open to ground which is correct. So is 100 Ohms a normal reading at the relay contact point? If not I have a bad relay....

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

The two male spade connectors on the relay (the relay primary winding) should show about 25 ohms across them. There should be NO continuity to vehicle/relay case ground from any relay terminals.

 

[Moparfiend]

Thanks 72RR Looks like the relay might be bad? I do measure 27 Ohms terminal to terminal BUT only with the brown wire attached I measure 100 Ohms from the start terminal (yellow start wire disconnected) to ground.

When I disconnect the brown neutral safety wire from the realy the circuit is open.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Remember, the brown/yellow is the ground for the starter relay primary, when in Park and Neutral only. If measuring from the disconnected yellow wire terminal, you should see the 27 ohms and whatever the NSS switch/wiring shows to ground. Apply fused +12v to the disconnected yellow wire term, should click or activate starter without over-current. Shouldn’t be more than 500ma on that primary circuit.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

I never have took care of ohms readings on a relay! simply gets continuity or not when is activated. The less resistance, the better electrical flow. Its simply like this... the big stud getting the batt power feeds the SOL terminal with all the power able to give to feed the Solenoid at Starter motor when the relay gets the trigger signal from ign switch starter line ( yellow ) AND the relay is grounded from Tranny ( in P or N ) or Clutch if manual transmission. If one of these signals, positive from ign switch yellow wire or ground from Tranny or clucth at brown traced yellow wire is missed trying to crank the engine, the relay won't close the circuit from Batt to Solenoid then the starter motor won't turn

 

[Moparfiend]

Thanks 72RR & Nacho for staying with me on this! Greatly appreciated!!!!!!

I will test out the relay today and report back!!

 

[Moparfiend]

OK so I disconnected the yellow starter wire to the relay and used a 2A fused wire to provide Vbat 12V to the start terminal on the relay. This successfully cranked the engine so it seems to be fine. I did not meaure the current draw on the start line but its under 2A.

I have ordered a nee starter switch/cable and wondering what else I should check before I install when i get it. Any suggestions?

I think I will check to see if I get 12V on the red-trace wire that was burned up going to the unswitched side of fuse box. I will also look to see if there is any short on the fuse box side. I know this is not related to the starting circuit but it does need to get dealt with.

Thanks again for all your support on this guys!!!

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

I would check the yellow wire run from the ignition switch connector to the starter relay for shorts. Disconnect the ignition switch connector, connect the yellow wire back on the starter relay. Take 2amp fused jumper to the ignition switch connector (harness side), jump the red wire to yellow. Should get starter operation without blowing your fuse as you did at the relay. If the fuse blows, you have a short on the yellow wire in the dash harness somewhere that would explain your smoking wires while cranking.

 

[Moparfiend]

I would check the yellow wire run from the ignition switch connector to the starter relay for shorts. Disconnect the ignition switch connector, connect the yellow wire back on the starter relay. Take 2amp fused jumper to the ignition switch connector (harness side), jump the red wire to yellow. Should get starter operation without blowing your fuse as you did at the relay. If the fuse blows, you have a short on the yellow wire in the dash harness somewhere that would explain your smoking wires while cranking.

Ok here is my update.
1. Yellow wire run not shorted
2. Was able to crank the car by shorting the yellow wire (now connected up to the starter relay) from the ignition switch connector (ignition switch not connected). I used a 2A inline fuse for the jump circuit.

So the ignition circuit looks functional.

I did check all the contacts on the ignition connector (again ignition switch not connected) to see what the resistance was to ground. Some things makes sence some I don’t understand.

Here is the summary:
Yellow open as expected
Black 13 Ohms not sure what this line?
Dark-Blu-trace 2 Ohms coil bypass ok?
Brown 1.7 Ohms Coil OK
Red open as expected is 12V
Orange 3.2 Ohms misc accy bulb resistance?
Red open cig lighter
Red open buzzer misc


Lastly I have unswitched 12V at the fuse box. Only one thick 12 ga? wire connected. The other spade is free and that is where I thought the smaller red wire with black trace that was fried went. That would have been consistent with the schematic but I then should not have 12V at the fuse box and I do. The thicker silid red wire would make sense to be the feed so I am left with not understanding what the fried line was connected to....

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

I would refer you back to post #37 for a detailed description of your burned wire. It was the original unswitched power feed to the fuse box. If you have unswitched power there now, it was likely added/by-passed on another wire somehow or the burned wire is still feeding the fuse box. Replace the wire with a similar sized or larger wire.

 

[Moparfiend]

I would refer you back to post #37 for a detailed description of your burned wire. It was the original unswitched power feed to the fuse box. If you have unswitched power there now, it was likely added/by-passed on another wire somehow or the burned wire is still feeding the fuse box. Replace the wire with a similar sized or larger wire.

Hi 72RR the schematic has two wires on that side of the fuse. With a buss bar between them it implies that it is indeed the 12V feed side. Why is the red wire so much larger than the red-trace wire? The red wire in the schematic is shown going to the headlight relay. All that remains from the red-trace wire is about 3 inches out of the harness and there is no 12V on it.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

The FSM diagram is showing only one feed, Q3-14R*, 14 gauge red with trace, as the un-switched (BATT) power feed. Runs from the wire weld splice to the BATT bus. Sounds like the larger red wire has been added. Where does it go to?

Headlight relay? On a Plymouth? No, that would be Charger only. Problem with third party wiring diagrams, not that accurate on details.

 

[Moparfiend]

The FSM diagram is showing only one feed, Q3-14R*, 14 gauge red with trace, as the un-switched (BATT) power feed. Runs from the wire weld splice to the BATT bus. Sounds like the larger red wire has been added. Where does it go to?

Headlight relay? On a Plymouth? No, that would be Charger only. Problem with third party wiring diagrams, not that accurate on details.

Your right 72RR! Thanks!b Looks like the schematic I WAS using is not correct. Now going strictly with mu FSM schematics for the Belvedere! This kills the idea I had on that wite but I will shift away from trying to debug that wire as it will be more evident as I get all the sustems up and running.

I am going to focuss on the ignition system so that I can move ahead to get her running.

Thanks for all the help 72RR & Nacho and the rest helping me on this thread I am sure I will have more and will initiate a separate thread for that.

Please follow my progress in the 66-70 cars entitled Help with Sport Satellite or something like that lol


Thanks again gents!!!

 

[Moparfiend]

Screeching halt to my last post looks like There are 2 wires on the unswitched battery post! Looking at the FSM schematic Q3-14R* on the instrument schematic and Q3-12R on the accessorie schematic! So with this new schematic with wire guage the larger wire indeed says it goes to a headlight relay (which I measured 12V unswitched). Q3-14R* should be 12V crimpted somewhere but in the harness its “open” this I beleive IS the wire that I found burned up in the dash.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Headlight delay relay? Is your car equipped with this option/accessory? Q3-12R would be the power take off for this option, not a power feed for the fuse box buss.

 

[Moparfiend]

Headlight delay relay? Is your car equipped with this option/accessory? Q3-12R would be the power take off for this option, not a power feed for the fuse box buss.

I don’t know what a headlight delay is. So I don’t know. But it could explain the wire in question. Because it dives into the harness I can not physically trace it. I do have power on the unswitched fuse bus...

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Appears the dash harness is prepped for the headlight delay relay option. Never run into it on a 2-door B-body. Higher end option mainly found on C-bodies. Disconnect it (12 gauge red wire) from the fuse box buss, check again for power at the bus, I think you will find your burned wire continues to feed power from the weld splice.

 

[Moparfiend]

Appears the dash harness is prepped for the headlight delay relay option. Never run into it on a 2-door B-body. Higher end option mainly found on C-bodies. Disconnect it (12 gauge red wire) from the fuse box buss, check again for power at the bus, I think you will find your burned wire continues to feed power from the weld splice.

Ok just noticed that the wire on the fuse was spliced with a red only wire. Its actually a red wire with a white trace and indeed is supplying 12V and now correctly coresponds with the schematic as it indicated a red with trace wire. Below is the unknown wire. Pink or violet with a black trace it went as far as the fuse block area and no trace of a connection. And yes Bubba installed the break release upside down lol.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

The only Violet with trace in that area I can see in the diagram runs from the hi/low foot switch to the bulk head connector, low beam feed to the forward lighting harness. Headlights working correctly?