Are you ready for a real weird one? Random NO spark from a MP electronic ignition system despite numerous parts swapped around...

[Kern Dog]

The XS battery arrived today.

The instructions are NOT included, like so many companies nowadays, they tell you to contact their website to download it.

It did not come fully charged but that is stated in their instructions. It is supposed to NOT be allowed to run below 10.0 volts because at that point, bringing it back to life is somewhere between difficult and impossible. They advise to charge it before putting it into service. No explanation why when it is supposed to be compatible with automotive alternator charging. I did order a specific charger for it but it is delayed.
Last year when I had this car in my shop:

His lithium battery charge went down as I had a 12V drop light attached to it. I charged it with a standard lead-acid battery charger and it has held up fine. I'm in no hurry here. I'll wait to get the approved one. I need to get those top post terminals to attach the cables anyway.

 

[ckessel]

Greg, what's the weight and cost of that unit?

 

[Kern Dog]

It is just shy of 7 lbs and as a side effect, it lightens your wallet by $450!

 

[Kern Dog]

The Mopar Action article that featured this battery was installed and tested by Rick Ehrenberg. That guy can be a real stickler for following rules and guidelines but he deviated from the manufacturer’s advice on charging the battery with their lithium charging unit. He used a conventional trickle charger so…

In less than 2 hours, it was ready.

I was busy with my nephew so I didn’t install it. I need to call Summit Racing to get the post terminals to connect it anyway.

 

[Some Car Guy]

That’s really not that bad a price considering the Odyssey batteries I use are 325 or so. Maybe 330. Last one I caught was a Black Friday sale just as I had to have one for the daily. So 450 for a super light weight deal seems reasonable. I forget what the group 34 one I have in the GTX weighs. It’s falcon heavy I can say for sure.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

The Mopar Action article that featured this battery was installed and tested by Rick Ehrenberg. That guy can be a real stickler for following rules and guidelines but he deviated from the manufacturer’s advice on charging the battery with their lithium charging unit. He used a conventional trickle charger so…

View attachment 1821907

In less than 2 hours, it was ready.

View attachment 1821908

I was busy with my nephew so I didn’t install it. I need to call Summit Racing to get the post terminals to connect it anyway.

From what I've read on these batteries (since I own one), as long as you are attentive and disconnect the charger as soon as it reaches full charge (and not after) you're ok. If you are not paying attention, these can be damaged from overcharging fairly easily, hence the special charger.

 

[Kern Dog]

Thanks, Dwayne. That is what I gathered too. The alternator charges it with a regulator set to a shutoff point but these lithium batteries apparently have a different way to alert that they have reached full charge…the conventional charging units cannot sense it. Left to run on their own, a conventional charging units cannot sense overcharge.
I was in the shop the whole time this was charging and I kept checking on it.

 

[oldbee]

Wait a minute, you have to use GM battery connectors??!!!!!! Lol

 

[RJRENTON]

The XS battery arrived today.

View attachment 1820761

The instructions are NOT included, like so many companies nowadays, they tell you to contact their website to download it.

View attachment 1820762

It did not come fully charged but that is stated in their instructions. It is supposed to NOT be allowed to run below 10.0 volts because at that point, bringing it back to life is somewhere between difficult and impossible. They advise to charge it before putting it into service. No explanation why when it is supposed to be compatible with automotive alternator charging. I did order a specific charger for it but it is delayed.
Last year when I had this car in my shop:

View attachment 1820763

His lithium battery charge went down as I had a 12V drop light attached to it. I charged it with a standard lead-acid battery charger and it has held up fine. I'm in no hurry here. I'll wait to get the approved one. I need to get those top post terminals to attach the cables anyway.

View attachment 1820765

Good looking tree, but it could use some trimming and the fence and posts could a coat of paint.....
BOB RENTON

 

[Kern Dog]

Wait a minute, you have to use GM battery connectors??!!!!!! Lol

Ha.
They were supposed to include traditional posts to attach to but something got screwed up. I have to call to get them today.

 

[Kern Dog]

I was finally able to get the battery in.

It sat a good 1 3/4” taller than the shorter side terminal battery that I had before.

Even sitting taller, there is still plenty of room above it.
Yeah, I worried a little about the possibility of a positive terminal touching the hood but with a stock battery tray, it all clears with ease.

The terminals were ordered yesterday afternoon and delivered today which was impressive. The battery was at 12.68 when I installed it.
First fire…

Even with the engine dead cold and 20w50 oil, it spun faster than usual. I ran it a few minutes and shut it down. Restarts even spun over faster. I’m almost giddy when I crank it over because it spins over so fast. I tested the voltage after running it less than 3 minutes.
12.94v. I have to reread the instructions but I thought that they are supposed to stay between 12.6 and 13.2. Rated at 1000 amps so this dude sure seems to be a winner.

 

[Kern Dog]

The operating voltage is higher than I thought.

13.6 volts? No wonder the engine spins over so much faster with these batteries!

 

[ckessel]

See if you can scare up one of the +clamp covers off of a late model car. If it were me, I'd also toss a pair of the felt rings under the clamps as a just because. Keep the corrosion factor at bay.

 

[oldbee]

See if you can scare up one of the +clamp covers off of a late model car. If it were me, I'd also toss a pair of the felt rings under the clamps as a just because. Keep the corrosion factor at bay.

A good thought, does a lithium do that?

 

[Kern Dog]

That I don’t know.
I never got any corrosion from the NAPA battery but being in the trunk, I don’t know if that matters.

 

[Some Car Guy]

A good thought, does a lithium do that?

I don’t know much about lithium ones, but the odyssey paperwork says it’s sealed and does not corrode the terminal. This one looks like it is fully sealed too.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

The operating voltage is higher than I thought.

View attachment 1822883

13.6 volts? No wonder the engine spins over so much faster with these batteries!

with the engine running, the instructions say to set it between 13.8 to 14.2V. Double check this with your multimeter measuring across the battery terminals with engine running at warmed up idle rpm. Since you recently installed the adjustable voltage regulator, it should be about spot on. Also, I use the vinyl terminal covers (not needed, but why not) as well as the bubble thermal heat shield sleeve (I sent you the ebay link for that and recommend it as the battery is rated for up to 140F and I wanted added insurance against underhood temps). Glad you got it installed! I know what you mean about that giddy feeling when it starts! It really fires the motor so fast and crisp, I can't believe I dealt with less starting performance than this for so darn long. I fought hot start issues for years due to battery cables that were too small and batteries with not enough cranking power. This thing really gives peace of mind.

 

[GTXDAN]

I think those terminal covers would be good idea just for safety. At 1000 amps that's a welder setting there waiting to go off.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

By the way, one thing for all to note - if you're looking at cold cranking amps - the Cranking Amps for the lithium titanate batteries like this are not rated the same way as CCA for a lead acid battery due to the different design so you should not compare them directly value to value. I can't recall the exact difference, but the ratings for this battery (670 Cranking Amps) are more than adequate and outperform any 1000 CCA lead acid battery I've used in the past. Unlike a lead acid battery, with repeating starter cranking current draw, the LTO battery will not lose cranking power anywhere near as quickly as a lead acid battery.
Here are the specs for the XS Power Lithium Titanate (LTO) XV2400 battery that Greg and I have installed:

XV2400
12V BCI Group 24, Lithium Titanate Automotive Battery

• 12-Volt LTO Battery
• Group 24
• Equivalent AGM Amp Hours: 20
• Cranking Amps: 670
• Max Amps: 1,335
• Wattage: 1,500
• Amp Hours: 6
• Rated up to 140°F
• Weight: 6.91 lbs

 

[toolmanmike]

I rarely get simple problems to post about. I get the weird ones that test my skills and patience.
This car:

View attachment 1633388

Has a 440 based 493 with mostly aftermarket stuff on it. It was a 318 model so when I did my first 440 swap to it in 2001, I converted it to the then popular Mopar Performance electronic conversion kit. The distributors they used for this were physically similar to the stock electronic distributors from the outside but had Mallory internals scaled down to fit a Chrysler housing. Smaller advance weights, lighter springs and generally not that great. They get spark scatter, unstable timing and can cause erratic idle issues. I worked though most of that so this one performs okay.
Here is the ongoing issue that I've encountered several times since around 2012, giver or take:
It could be a cold start or a warm restart....I get no spark. None. I touched nothing, I moved nothing, it just started and ran normally moments or days earlier and now it spins and won't fire. Sometimes I've changed the ECM and it starts fine immediately afterwards so I blamed the ECM since we all know the spotty reliability of the Orange box...

View attachment 1633389

Once I was at the Sacramento Autorama on display and it was the day to take our cars and leave. No spark, no tools, no spare parts. I twisted connections, wiggled wires and cussed a lot. Nothing helped. About an hour of screwing around, then I sat inside and tried again and BOOM, it fired up like normal.

Weeks afterward, a car club member offered to help me rewire the engine side to avoid future NO start issues. It started fine before he worked his magic. Afterwards I had the NO spark again along with some funky headlight door reactions. (That I figured out some 10 years later when I installed the CrackedBack headlight relays!) I gave up and ordered a new harness from Evans.

Randomly over the years, it has happened, almost every time here at home, thank the Lord for that at least. I've tried bypassing the ignition switch with a spare one attached from under the dash. No change, still NO spark.
I've tried Ether/Starting fluid with mixed results. Sometimes it fires up immediately but I wonder if that was just how the damned thing is....maybe the ether spray made no difference and it was going to start when it was ready no matter what.

In 2017 I wanted to weigh the car and I had to get home (In my work truck) in time to get the Charger to the scales. One time it stalled without reason at an intersection and after trying a new coil then ECM, it fired up. The next day, It stalled in my driveway and putting the previous coil back in allowed it to start.
Yeah...It has been musical chairs with parts.
A couple of weeks ago I was tinkering with the A/C and pulled the low pressure switch. The car stalled and shut off. NO spark again. Why? What the heck does the low pressure switch have to do with the ignition wiring? I swapped in another ECM and it started up.

It feels as if I'm on the receiving end of some voodoo curse, like some "force" is watching me and selecting specific parts to conk out and stall the car, then just allowing it to start up again. Yeah, I know that is impossible, it just seems really strange.

I've adjusted the distributor air gap as per the FSM and other publications. .008 set with a brass feeler gage.
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EDIT:
Sometimes it will feel like it wants to start as I turn the key back to LOCK.

I am going back to the beginning Greg. I don't have the time to read through 21 pages of comments to see if this has been mentioned or not. My new to me 64 Polara has Mopar electronic ignition on it and I am experiencing a similar no start condition like you. You can jumper the coil + terminal from the battery + and it will start. The voltage drop while cranking goes down to 10.9 and 10.8 at the ECU. I am wondering what the minimum voltage is for the ECU's. I need to do a little testing. Does it have spark after a battery charge when the surface voltage is around 13v. or so? Could I provide an external 12 v power source for the ECU and the car would start? This theory is all about the starter draw pulling the battery down below the minimum operating voltage of the ECU. @Dave6T4 mentioned that he replaced his old starter with a new style Nippon Denso and not only did it spin over faster, the car started easier. Like he said
"I think the old starter was pulling so much power, there was not much left for ignition system." I think he might be onto something. I might try the battery charge test first just to see what happens. If low voltage is the issue, a stronger battery sure could help. So could a news starter. Even a different ECU that isn't as picky about minimum voltage may fix the issue. I may end up going back to a plain old single point distributor with a Pertronix in it.