Conventional clutch guys - where do you keep the release point in your pedal?

[moparedtn]

I very recently just paid a "real mechanic" here locally to finally get rid of the awful RAM "purple" clutch in Fred, replaced
instead with a regular ol' (and I MEAN "ol' " - I bought an old but new organic material "parts store" clutch and B&B
pressure plate from Dan Brewer specifically).
Most importantly, I had the factory heavy-arsed 11" flywheel resurfaced - and polished - to get rid of the heat spots all
over it as inflicted by said RAM clutch....
Dude is a typical early 60's-age 40 year guy and works on mostly heavier equipment and old trucks and stuff - and
unlike every other shop in this area, was not the least bit afraid of the job.

Yeah, I don't want to hear it - it's not a job I like to farm out (what is, really?) but there's no way my rapidly diminishing
physical abilities were going to allow yet another wrasslin' match with an 18-spline under Fred (no lift here - *sigh*).
Mechanic reported that he and the local machine shop worked on the flywheel "for a while" and that it wouldn't survive
another resurfacing in the future - it was that bad (trust me dude...I know it was).

He also claimed some other things were discovered I know to be somewhat suspect, though - said the throwout was
actually riding the fingers (nope, I've checked that more than once and was set per FSM) and that the shifter linkage
was "backwards" (also nope, set up right off Dan's personal pics AND the FSM).
Anyways...

Fred is now back home and I have two observations from the very brief trip so far:
1. The clutch chatter seems totally GONE. Halelluyah!
2. The clutch engages VERY close to the floor - like an inch or two off the carpet.
(Well, at least I guess the throwout bearing ain't riding fingers this time, eh? )
I haven't had the chance to really drive Fred much at all since I got him home (combination of life, health, weather, all
that usual crap) but that will change here very soon (I hope, God willin').

So, the question begs - of those of you who own "conventional" old school clutches in these things, where
do you prefer the release point/engagement point to be in the swing of the clutch pedal?
I realize you hydraulic guys have different parameters you deal with - and probably even the diaphragm-types do, too -
but where do you guys prefer to have the clutch set at?
(Keep in mind, the minimum air gap betwixt bearing and fingers will be maintained at the least....)

 

[CarolinaCharger]

Within 2" of the floor. When I start to release the clutch pedal, I expect things to start happening quickly.

 

[padam]

I’ve always liked the release pretty high. Lets me ease into it a little better and I feel its quicker to hit during a shift.

But my stuff is either modified or homemade. I have stops at the top and bottom of the travel so I can fine tune it.

It should be an easy adjustment for you, just the bottom rod.

 

[khryslerkid]

I changed a clutch for a neighbor once in his Ford truck. After having the flywheel resurfaced and installing the new clutch and pressure plate, the pedal was just off the floor when engaging. It was a hydraulic clutch and there was an adjustment under the dash on the linkage. It was 2-3" off the floor before all the work. With a little tweaking I managed to get it right but it was at the end of the adjustment. Not what you want with all new parts.

Taking material off the flywheel and the new clutch disk not being much thicker than the worn one, makes it hard to get things where they should be.

 

[moparedtn]

I changed a clutch for a neighbor once in his Ford truck. After having the flywheel resurfaced and installing the new clutch and pressure plate, the pedal was just off the floor when engaging. It was a hydraulic clutch and there was an adjustment under the dash on the linkage. It was 2-3" off the floor before all the work. With a little tweaking I managed to get it right but it was at the end of the adjustment. Not what you want with all new parts.

Taking material off the flywheel and the new clutch disk not being much thicker than the worn one, makes it hard to get things where they should be.

Yep, for sure - so where do you have yours set, John?

 

[toolmanmike]

I very recently just paid a "real mechanic" here locally to finally get rid of the awful RAM "purple" clutch in Fred, replaced
instead with a regular ol' (and I MEAN "ol' " - I bought an old but new organic material "parts store" clutch and B&B
pressure plate from Dan Brewer specifically).
Most importantly, I had the factory heavy-arsed 11" flywheel resurfaced - and polished - to get rid of the heat spots all
over it as inflicted by said RAM clutch....
Dude is a typical early 60's-age 40 year guy and works on mostly heavier equipment and old trucks and stuff - and
unlike every other shop in this area, was not the least bit afraid of the job.

Yeah, I don't want to hear it - it's not a job I like to farm out (what is, really?) but there's no way my rapidly diminishing
physical abilities were going to allow yet another wrasslin' match with an 18-spline under Fred (no lift here - *sigh*).
Mechanic reported that he and the local machine shop worked on the flywheel "for a while" and that it wouldn't survive
another resurfacing in the future - it was that bad (trust me dude...I know it was).

He also claimed some other things were discovered I know to be somewhat suspect, though - said the throwout was
actually riding the fingers (nope, I've checked that more than once and was set per FSM) and that the shifter linkage
was "backwards" (also nope, set up right off Dan's personal pics AND the FSM).
Anyways...

Fred is now back home and I have two observations from the very brief trip so far:
1. The clutch chatter seems totally GONE. Halelluyah!
2. The clutch engages VERY close to the floor - like an inch or two off the carpet.
(Well, at least I guess the throwout bearing ain't riding fingers this time, eh? )
I haven't had the chance to really drive Fred much at all since I got him home (combination of life, health, weather, all
that usual crap) but that will change here very soon (I hope, God willin').

So, the question begs - of those of you who own "conventional" old school clutches in these things, where
do you prefer the release point/engagement point to be in the swing of the clutch pedal?
I realize you hydraulic guys have different parameters you deal with - and probably even the diaphragm-types do, too -
but where do you guys prefer to have the clutch set at?
(Keep in mind, the minimum air gap betwixt bearing and fingers will be maintained at the least....)

I don't adjust the free play (nor do I recommend it) I ruined a pressure plate and throw out bearing adjusting it that way. I pull the inspection cover and adjust the air gap between the bearing and pressure plate fingers. 1/8'-3/16" is perfect. Cycle the pedal a few times and recheck. It will always operate perfectly regardless where the pedal free play is.

 

[moparedtn]

Just for the record, here's how the FSM says:



...so I guess the "correct" answer is 1" at the pedal?

 

[toolmanmike]

Just for the record, here's how the FSM says:

View attachment 1653179

...so I guess the "correct" answer is 1" at the pedal?

depending on how worn your linkage is. 4 or 5 cycles of the linkage with every shift into 4th and back to first. How many miles on your car. (that's the reason why carb shaft bushings are always worn out on manual transmission cabs. Open, close, open ,close. 4 times with each shifter cycle to 4th and back.

 

[khryslerkid]

Yep, for sure - so where do you have yours set, John?

I haven't had a three pedal vehicle for awhile. I don't think I'd want one with my worn out hips and knees. Lol

I've always liked the pedal 2" minimum from the floor. Sitting in traffic and having to have the pedal pushed hard against the floor isn't comfortable. Of course you don't want it too high either. I say have it where you are comfortable with it and without having any pressure on the throw out bearing when the pedal is up.

 

[moparedtn]

depending on how worn your linkage is. 4 or 5 cycles of the linkage with every shift into 4th and back to first. How many miles on your car. (that's the reason why carb shaft bushings are always worn out on manual transmission cars. Open, close, open ,close. 4 times with each shifter cycle to 4th and back.

All the bushings and hardware and such are new, as is the z-bar itself - but the point you're making is valid nonetheless.
For example, the previous owner who did the "conversion" did a rather rough looking location of the frame-side
pivot ball for the z-bar, so that might be off a tad.
I'm sure a myriad of engine changes haven't helped either.

 

[BB BELLA]

3/4" free play and 1/2 pedal for slip!otherwise you might as well drive a truck and you'll never beat an automatic without tearing up ****! my.02

 

[WileE]

Set the height so when you depress the clutch pedal about an inch, you'll start disengagement.

 

[toolmanmike]

I don't adjust the free play (nor do I recommend it) I ruined a pressure plate and throw out bearing adjusting it that way. I pull the inspection cover and adjust the air gap between the bearing and pressure plate fingers. 1/8'-3/16" is perfect. Cycle the pedal a few times and recheck. It will always operate perfectly regardless where the pedal free play is.

 

[1967coronet]

Pretty much in the center of travel with 1" free play at the top.
Plus making sure the throw out bearing is not making contact after release.

 

[eldubb440]

Pretty much in the center of travel with 1" free play at the top.
Plus making sure the throw out bearing is not making contact after release.

we used to call it "toe play"...... the T/O bearing will thank you

 

[oldbee]

Ed, go with Wile & kk; I agree.

 

[moparedtn]

Well, the planets finally aligned and we got a chance to drive Fred today for the first time since...

Initial results from a 50 mile round trip:
- Clutch is damn near on the floor for disengagement, but driveable. That'll get changed, pronto...
- Shifter is notchy/not as smooth as I had it (he made a point of telling me he found it "wrong", which is
horseshit). Shifter adjustment coming up also, pronto....
(The thing that kills me about this is he didn't have to take the shifter body off to remove the transmission,
of course - just needed to remove the handle up top is all).
- There's also something that rattles like heck when I let the RPM's get too low when first engaging (or
when I don't quite get the pedal all the way to the carpet, seems like). That'll get found, too...

So....I need to get under there and get things corrected, all after paying a guy who supposedly knows what
he's doing - again.
Very few times in this life have I allowed another work on my stuff and knock wood, it's never turned out
proper. I feel even more empathy for those who have to get others to work on their stuff ALL the time....

I'll get back under there tomorrow, FSM+Brewers+Hurst stuff in hand and try to get it all sane again.
EDIT: Almost forgot - at least the insane CHATTERING of before is gone.

 

[padam]

Well, the planets finally aligned and we got a chance to drive Fred today for the first time since...

Initial results from a 50 mile round trip:
- Clutch is damn near on the floor for disengagement, but driveable. That'll get changed, pronto...
- Shifter is notchy/not as smooth as I had it (he made a point of telling me he found it "wrong", which is
horseshit). Shifter adjustment coming up also, pronto....
(The thing that kills me about this is he didn't have to take the shifter body off to remove the transmission,
of course - just needed to remove the handle up top is all).
- There's also something that rattles like heck when I let the RPM's get too low when first engaging (or
when I don't quite get the pedal all the way to the carpet, seems like). That'll get found, too...

So....I need to get under there and get things corrected, all after paying a guy who supposedly knows what
he's doing - again.
Very few times in this life have I allowed another work on my stuff and knock wood, it's never turned out
proper. I feel even more empathy for those who have to get others to work on their stuff ALL the time....

I'll get back under there tomorrow, FSM+Brewers+Hurst stuff in hand and try to get it all sane again.
EDIT: Almost forgot - at least the insane CHATTERING of before is gone.

If the clutch is so close to the floor it might not be disengaging enough to shift smoothly.
I feel the same way about having someone else work on my car.

 

[toolmanmike]

Well, the planets finally aligned and we got a chance to drive Fred today for the first time since...

Initial results from a 50 mile round trip:
- Clutch is damn near on the floor for disengagement, but driveable. That'll get changed, pronto...
- Shifter is notchy/not as smooth as I had it (he made a point of telling me he found it "wrong", which is
horseshit). Shifter adjustment coming up also, pronto....
(The thing that kills me about this is he didn't have to take the shifter body off to remove the transmission,
of course - just needed to remove the handle up top is all).
- There's also something that rattles like heck when I let the RPM's get too low when first engaging (or
when I don't quite get the pedal all the way to the carpet, seems like). That'll get found, too...

So....I need to get under there and get things corrected, all after paying a guy who supposedly knows what
he's doing - again.
Very few times in this life have I allowed another work on my stuff and knock wood, it's never turned out
proper. I feel even more empathy for those who have to get others to work on their stuff ALL the time....

I'll get back under there tomorrow, FSM+Brewers+Hurst stuff in hand and try to get it all sane again.
EDIT: Almost forgot - at least the insane CHATTERING of before is gone.

If the clutch is so close to the floor it might not be disengaging enough to shift smoothly.
I feel the same way about having someone else work on my car.

When the pedal goes away, it needs an adjustment to bring the throw out bearing closer to the pressure plate which will bring the free play closer to the top.

 

[moparedtn]

UPDATE: Couldn't wait, so I got under there this evening to check things out (admittedly, without taking the
time to use jack stands or such - jacked up the drivers' side at the rear spring/frame intersection real quick).
Got my wife in the car behind the wheel and under I went...
Gave the adjuster nut probably 3/16" of adjustment and when she said the release point at the pedal was
halfway between floor and the point where the pedal "sticks" (where the weak over-center spring goes from assisting
with depressing the pedal to returning it all the way up), I stopped.

To be honest, it was rather surprising how far down the adjusting rod the adjusting rod was already -
meaning, I suppose, that they took a lot of material off the flywheel to get it trued and clean again.

That adjustment meant a gain of about 1 - 1 1/2", so the pedal now disengages the clutch about 2 1/2" off the floor.
I'm ok with that for now...
Especially since as the clutch wears, the pedal engagement will "rise" with time - and there's about 3/4 swing
left there.
That also means the throwout isn't anywhere near coming in contact with the fingers of the clutch either, eh?

I gave it a real quick "out and back in the garage" test and it felt much better than before...
I also took a minute to straighten up and tighten header/headpipe connections and such from rather sloppy
work, too.
We'll see how it all works out from here.