Critique My Engine Build....440

[LemonWedge]

I liked mike 67 cam choice but with solids. My question for lemon wedge is what rear gears is he running? If you are using main studs are you having align honed. A guy that lived next to me put main studs in and after tearing the motor down from problems. He asked me to look at his bearings. Thrust main had ware on opposite sides and he wondered why. Put the cap on and I saw that he didn't enlarge the holes in the cap so he could set the thrust.

Yes, I have studded mains and had the block align-honed. It's a 230 casting 400 block that's .040 over with a 63 413 crank cut and balanced. Scat H-beam rods, and KB-Iconn forged pistons. I built the bottom end with the idea that I may throw a nitrous kit at it someday. I haven't done that yet and probably won't, as I mostly bracket race, but I'm glad I built the bottom end stout. I'm 6 years of beating on it now, with no issues other than a popped head gasket last year.
I run 4.10's now, after a few years of 3.91's. I drive it around town all the time in the summer months. It runs great on the street, and clicks off 11.60's consistently.
I also run an RPM intake and had an 830DP on it until now, but I just invested in a brand new 1000 HP. We'all see how that works out this spring.

 

[threewood]

I wouldn't run any "ready to run heads" without a complete teardown, inspection, correction and reassembly by a good machinist.

That shouldn't be an issue, my

I liked mike 67 cam choice but with solids. My question for lemon wedge is what rear gears is he running? If you are using main studs are you having align honed. A guy that lived next to me put main studs in and after tearing the motor down from problems. He asked me to look at his bearings. Thrust main had ware on opposite sides and he wondered why. Put the cap on and I saw that he didn't enlarge the holes in the cap so he could set the thrust.

If main studs create more setup problems I have no issues with using bolts, just thought it would be better. I will ask my builder and see what he thinks. Thanks!

 

[threewood]

My 440 build was very similar to yours except I went with a hyd FT from Hughes. For off-the-line performance it's important to match the gearing with the cam. If Dave Hughes recommends 3.70+ gears then that's what you should go with. Also dial in your stall too.

I agree after looking at the cam description closer. Before I order anything I will talk with my builder and call Hughes to make sure they agree with what I have picked out.

Once I have everything picked out and bought, I will contact John Cope and have him spec me a converter, they use PTC. Have one in my 62 and it works fantastic.

 

[threewood]

Will the rpm performer manifold clear your hood? It would not clear when I dropped a 440 in my '69 RR.

Good question. What setup are you running and how was it not clearing? The issues I had heard about are not being able to use the stock air grabber air cleaner which I don't plan using right away.

 

[Yatzee]

I dropped my motor off at the shop yesterday and they plan on cleaning and checking it for cracks today. So I figured I should start getting a game plan together. It is going to be a street car, not daily driven but driven a few times a week around town. Goal is 525hp street brawler that sounds nasty.
Car specs (1969 GTX)
727 auto
8.75 rear with 3.55 sure grip rear
440 block is a 69 hp block
Stock front suspension
Mopar s.s. springs rear

Forged crank, stock stroke.
Stock rods
Keith Black Pistons from Hughes KB237, size to be determined. Used with the Stealth heads, should yield a 10.6:1cr depending on gasket http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...Q==&searchmode=partnumber&page=6&partid=27949

Go big or go home!, Do it once, do it right!, Never time to do it right, always time to do it twice! Get the picture ? Trick flow heads all the way ( mine are fantastic ), Trend Performance push rods and a bottom girdle to hold it all together. And don't forget that new PTC torque converter (ask for Kenny), heavy duty drive shaft and universals, front torque strap ( or a few spare motor mounts ) and a new high performance radiator ( that bitch is gonna run warm) and don't forget that upgraded tranny kit with heavy duty sprags and bands and a big tranny cooler. See, once you pass 500 hp, everything behind the engine is just $hit if it's stock. My 512 stroker destroyed everything behind it that was OE except the 8 3/4 posi rear end. Better start adjusting that budget.
Hughes solid lifter cam STL 4246BS3-9
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...&level2=RmxhdCBUYXBwZXQsIFNvbGlk&partid=30278

Hughes EDM lifters 5012
Hughes 1128 springs
Stealth Heads (80cc). I like these better because of the straight plug placement and sealed water jacket under exhaust studs. Plus they look stock and I plan to paint the entire motor hemi orange for a stock look.
Edelbrock Performer RPM high rise dual plane intake.
850 Demon carb.
Headers (looking at Summit or Jegs brand)
ARP con rod bolts, cap studs, and head bolts.
Mancini Racing Adjustable Rocker Kit, 1.5:1 ratio, MRE 57001-15-714
Ball / cup pushrods

Thoughts? Opinions?
My reasoning on solid vs. hyd cam.... love the sound, higher reving, no worries about bleed down or pump up. And I am buying the adjustable rockers regardless. Spring pressure is higher with solid but within specs of rockers and the springs are a matched to the cam. I will listen to any advise.

Pistons...anything elseworth looking at? Are forged needed for my build?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Yatzee]

I dropped my motor off at the shop yesterday and they plan on cleaning and checking it for cracks today. So I figured I should start getting a game plan together. It is going to be a street car, not daily driven but driven a few times a week around town. Goal is 525hp street brawler that sounds nasty.
Car specs (1969 GTX)
727 auto
8.75 rear with 3.55 sure grip rear
440 block is a 69 hp block
Stock front suspension
Mopar s.s. springs rear

Forged crank, stock stroke.
Stock rods
Keith Black Pistons from Hughes KB237, size to be determined. Used with the Stealth heads, should yield a 10.6:1cr depending on gasket http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...Q==&searchmode=partnumber&page=6&partid=27949
Hughes solid lifter cam STL 4246BS3-9
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...&level2=RmxhdCBUYXBwZXQsIFNvbGlk&partid=30278

Hughes EDM lifters 5012
Hughes 1128 springs
Stealth Heads (80cc). I like these better because of the straight plug placement and sealed water jacket under exhaust studs. Plus they look stock and I plan to paint the entire motor hemi orange for a stock look.
Edelbrock Performer RPM high rise dual plane intake.
850 Demon carb.
Headers (looking at Summit or Jegs brand)
ARP con rod bolts, cap studs, and head bolts.
Mancini Racing Adjustable Rocker Kit, 1.5:1 ratio, MRE 57001-15-714
Ball / cup pushrods

Thoughts? Opinions?
My reasoning on solid vs. hyd cam.... love the sound, higher reving, no worries about bleed down or pump up. And I am buying the adjustable rockers regardless. Spring pressure is higher with solid but within specs of rockers and the springs are a matched to the cam. I will listen to any advise.

Pistons...anything elseworth looking at? Are forged needed for my build?

Thanks,
Mark

Go big or go home!, Do it once, do it right!, Never time to do it right, always time to do it twice! Get the picture ? Trick flow heads all the way ( mine are fantastic ), Trend Performance push rods and a bottom girdle to hold it all together. And don't forget that new PTC torque converter (ask for Kenny), heavy duty drive shaft and universals, front torque strap ( or a few spare motor mounts ) and a new high performance radiator ( that bitch is gonna run warm) and don't forget that upgraded tranny kit with heavy duty sprags and bands and a big tranny cooler. See, once you pass 500 hp, everything behind the engine is just $hit if it's stock. My 512 stroker destroyed everything behind it that was OE except the 8 3/4 posi rear end. Better start adjusting that budget.

 

[mentor70]

i went with Stealth heads on my build, i started with bare heads and had Hughes CNC port them a couple of years ago, they turned out real nice, but the bottoms were not anywhere near flat, i would not recomend running them out of the box without some inspection and work.

the cam choice would yeld alot more than 525HP with CNC ported heads, and i agree with other posters in that, the selection is pretty stout for a mostly street car.
i have a hydraulic roller that size and im serisouly considering going a size or too smaller on a solid roller, somwhere in the 230 to 235 degree zone.

 

[GTXplicity]

Absolutely buy the best parts you can and I agree with LemonWedge as well - you could probably get away with a little more cam as long as you get a quality converter matched to the combo.

I run a very similar 446 set up, the primary differences being a 250/258 Erson solid cam, cleaned up Sidewinder heads (Eddy knockoff's), Torker intake and a 9.5 Dynamic converter. Motor made 540hp at a very streetable 5,500 and 570tq. This is a 99% street car with 3.23's and required drag radials to hook over half throttle. 3.55's or 3.73's would make it a little more "peppy" while cruising around on the street, but I wanted to keep the rpm's down on the highway, so I stayed with the 3.23's. On the flip side, a smaller cam might not hit your 525hp goal, but you're going to make so much torque it won't matter - I hope you like buying tires!

 

[threewood]

Got a call from the machine shop today. Block will clean up at .040", no cracks, and the rods are in good shape.....

I ordered the KB 237 040 piston and ring set so he can fit them to the motor. I also decided on the cam. I went a step lower than what I originally posted. The Hughes STL3842BS3-9 (238/242) and the EDM lifters.
I am excited to get it started, still going to take a while so I have time to think on which head I can afford.

 

[Mjcre]

Good question. What setup are you running and how was it not clearing? The issues I had heard about are not being able to use the stock air grabber air cleaner which I don't plan using right away.

Performer rpm was too tall for my stock non air grabber hood. I used an edelbrock ch4b. I think in tests they flow about like a performer or a tad better and are just a little shorter in height than a performer. Just check into it when your at that point.

 

[threewood]

Performer rpm was too tall for my stock non air grabber hood. I used an edelbrock ch4b. I think in tests they flow about like a performer or a tad better and are just a little shorter in height than a performer. Just check into it when your at that point.

Thanks. I was doing a little reading on line and found out the RPM is pretty tall and creates issues. Guys have used them with drop base air cleaners but say it creates a smaller area into the carb. So I am now leaning towards the Holley Street Dominator intake. It is a single plane but from what I have read will still work well on the street.

 

[moparedtn]

You folks saying the Edelbrock Performer is causing hood issues - are you not talking about the Performer RPM instead?
It's taller than the Performer.

 

[mentor70]

i use a drop base 14 inch air cleaner.

you can fine tune your hood clearance with the thickness of your air filter.

keep in mind that a six pack set up in not much different that running a drop base.

i wouldnt think it would cause alot of HP loss on a street car.

and if your gonna race, take it off.

 

[threewood]

Engine is ready for more parts. The 237s are .010 in the hole, valve relief is 5cc, combustion est is 80cc, and using a .020 steel shim gasket, bore and stroke 4.36 x 3.75, I came up with 10.92 for c.r.

Is my math good?
If so do I want a thicker gasket?

EDIT: After some digging it looks like Summit has wrong valve relief cc listed. From KBs site, valve relief is 9cc.........so that puts me at 10.51cr. I will stick with what I have as 10.5 is what I was after

 

[threewood]

I have the heads, waiting on valvetrain components. Ordered the Crane Iron Rockers and hardened shafts. Getting close to mocking it up to size push rods and check valve relief. Plus I am getting a valve job done on the heads. I will clean some of the ports up myself and intake gasket match.

I finally have some solid numbers for my compression ratio and quench after measuring pistons at tdc.
.009" in the hole
80cc chamber
9cc valve reliefs
.030" Cometic head gaskets, 4.380"
4.36" bore
3.75" stroke

Gives me .039" quench with steel connecting rods, 6k rpm max and a compression ratio of 10.30

Stealth heads...

 

[threewood]

Here is the engine mocked up so far...

Summit billet timing chain and aluminum water pump housing / Summit stay cool pump.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Need to paint water pump housing bolts silver.

 

[threewood]

Need to paint water pump housing bolts silver.

Water pump housing is getting painted hemi orange with everything else! Going for the subtle, factory look. Intake and heads are getting painted too.

 

[65Fury440]

Congrads on your build!!
Here's something I didn't know that may help you.

Demon carbs are wet flow rated, VS other carbs that are dry flow rated. Basically, that 850 Demon, is about the same specs as a 950 Holley. There are downleg boosters, and annular boosters that affect total airflow, but bottom line is they flow more.

I had an old 750 Holley on my 440, with a 509 cam , performer RPM intake, headers etc.
The 750 needed a lot of work, I felt it would pick up more top end with an 850, so I bought a Mighty Demon annular booster carb.

The new carb was lazy to drive around, it was over-carbed. The right choice should have been an 850 Holley, or a 750 Demon.

I have a new 526 stroker now, with ported Trick Flows, that carb now has great response.

I'd stick with a smaller carb on your build, it would be a better mannered ride.

Good luck on the new bullet, another FYI, Amazon has Comp Cams break in oil, 60 bucks for 12 quarts. I needed that much for my big pan, you might be able to find a 6 quart deal.

 

[383man]

Thats not a bad sounding combo. My old 440 was close to your build. I had stock crank and rods and used KB quench pad pistons with 906 heads I did some porting on myself and it came out at 10.0 comp. I ram the MP .557 solid cam and used the Holley Street Dominator intake with a Holley 850 DP. I also ran a 727 with a Dynamic 9.5 converter. In my 3725 lb 63 it ran a best of 11.49 @ 116 through the full exh on pump gas. It was a nice running and driving combo for what it was. I was also on a budget when I built my 440. Its not a bad combo. I would also run the Stealth heads if thats all my budget could afford as they are better then any of the old iron heads and can work pretty good when ported. Good luck with it. Ron