DRUM Brake Overhaul - Now, for something totally different...

[moparedtn]

Keep us posted Ed on those hoses also where the brake cylinders came from as I’m looking for USA only parts for my RT. I would normally buy NOS but sorry 50 year old rubber does kinda deteriorate while sitting and I’m driving mine... But it must look as close as possible to original and function that way . I feel safer with made in USA stuff too... Yep I pay up for it too...

Yep, agreed on NOS. Things just are not working out for me to use much of anything NOS on this for sure -
but then, I didn't anticipate I'd be able to to begin with.
Re: Hoses...
I've got a full set of new hoses picked out from Inline Tube that are indicated to be all US made, like these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/181380649565

Honestly, at this point it appears the toughest parts of this project to fetch in US-made looks to be the hardware.

 

[F4R/T]

Thanks Ed!

 

[moparedtn]

Thanks Ed!

Hey, that's the goal of doing this thread, eh?
I am finding out one other thing about this project - yes, we can still rebuild these factory brakes
using US-made stuff, but if anyone else is planning on doing so - I'd recommend they get to steppin'
and fetchin'!

 

[F4R/T]

Absolutely share the knowledge and the trip !

 

[glen e gates]

Instead of yet another "disc conversion" story like so many out there (and against my better judgement, probably) I've decided to finally get some decent brakes going on Fred - my 1968 Plymouth GTX.
The car has the typical for the day 11x3 front drums, 11x2.5 rear drum brakes - no power nothing, no discs to be found (or converted to).

My premise of doing this was two-fold:
1. I wanted the brakes to not only work properly again, but to feel like they did when the car was new.
2. I wanted to see if it was possible to do so, replacing ALL hardware, hoses, cylinders, linings - and replacing all of them with USA-Made stuff.

Quite the daunting task, that - everything pretty much is reproduced in China these days.
This would logically mean I'd be buying new old stock - if any was still out there to be had...
Here goes nothing!

I did the retro fit of 3 inch drums hoses cylenders drums springs 400 bucks out the window I put disc on much better

 

[F4R/T]

To each their own, large drums actually have more stopping power due to sheer surface area. Disc stop good too both will fade if pushed to the limit.. Drums stop 40 plus ton trucks every single day .. Yes you are seeing some front disc on the tractors but not the life span and costly to service.. It’s all strictly up to you.. Aftermarket China or grafted Chevy and ford parts don’t appeal to some of us.

 

[mrmolding]

I looked at www.porterfield-brakes.com and did not see drums. I had an interesting time trying to find 11x3 front drums that had the groove in it for the spring and no one sells newer drums with the hub swedged to the drum.
Newer compatible repops (just sharing since NOS 11x3 swedged drums are very pricey on eBay) like Raybestos 1938R seem to be sold out everywhere but the Bendix PDR0019 has a few sellers on eBay and have them in stock. But neither Raybestos or Bendix put the groove in it or have a hub.
Since I'd gotten the outer howl springs from ECS not realizing that there are not grooves on newer drums, I found an ebay seller that had an old stock EIS set of drums for sale. So I had to purchase OEM hubs, studs, bearings and seals to get aftermarket 11x3 drums to work. The ones on my car were pitted and not much left to turn. So now I have a set of NOS 11x3 EIS D5956 Drums with grooves and springs, and a rebuilt hub.
Really wondering if I should have just gotten discs, but I wanted to keep car original. Look forward to more info as it comes here...

 

[moparedtn]

I did the retro fit of 3 inch drums hoses cylenders drums springs 400 bucks out the window I put disc on much better

There's no "retro" going on here - most all of the performance model Mopars of the late 60's/early 70's came
with 11x3 front/11x2.5 rear drum brakes STOCK.
I'm glad you like disc better - but that's immaterial to this point of this thread.

 

[moparedtn]

I looked at www.porterfield-brakes.com and did not see drums. I had an interesting time trying to find 11x3 front drums that had the groove in it for the spring and no one sells newer drums with the hub swedged to the drum.
Newer compatible repops (just sharing since NOS 11x3 swedged drums are very pricey on eBay) like Raybestos 1938R seem to be sold out everywhere but the Bendix PDR0019 has a few sellers on eBay and have them in stock. But neither Raybestos or Bendix put the groove in it or have a hub.
Since I'd gotten the outer howl springs from ECS not realizing that there are not grooves on newer drums, I found an ebay seller that had an old stock EIS set of drums for sale. So I had to purchase OEM hubs, studs, bearings and seals to get aftermarket 11x3 drums to work. The ones on my car were pitted and not much left to turn. So now I have a set of NOS 11x3 EIS D5956 Drums with grooves and springs, and a rebuilt hub.
Really wondering if I should have just gotten discs, but I wanted to keep car original. Look forward to more info as it comes here...

I'm not looking for any drums as part of this project; I have (4) 11x3 originals (2 on the car now) and the rears are readily
available as you say. Mine should all clean up just fine.
Porterfield was not chosen by me, nor offered as a suggestion to others, as a source for drums; I should have made
that clear (if all my previous posts had not already indicated I wasn't looking for drums).
Yeah, Bendix is repopping the 11x3 drums, but they're Chinese of course.

 

[moparedtn]

By the way - regarding the Porterfield recommendation I received from Nick Panaritis of Nick's Garage on
YouTube fame:
I got a most unexpected phone call here this afternoon around 5pm and when I looked at the caller ID,
I saw "Indy Auto" indicated.

Yes - that's Nick's actual businesses' name. I was getting an actual call from Nick!
This guy famously is a workaholic and yet here he was, taking time out of his day to call me...

I answer and I hear that familiar voice call out "ED!" so of course, I replied "NICK!"
Turns out, he was on the way to the dentist for a followup visit late in the day and decided to call and
tell me how he came about knowing that Porterfield made brake shoes for our cars in the USA...

Those of you who watch his channel know about a '69 Charger 500 one-owner car that he's in process
of restoring for a gentleman in Texas named Eugene (a gentleman I've come to have had conversations
with over time and is a real good guy, not to mention a veteran).
Well, part of many conversations Nick has had with Eugene was about brakes on the car and Eugene had
specified he wanted to KEEP the factory 4-wheel drum setup on the car - and also wanting to keep it USA,
Eugene had recommended to Nick that he use Porterfield on his 500.

Nick had dutifully done as he was asked and fetched the shoes, expecting a lengthy delay after ordering them -
but he said it took less than two weeks to cross the planet from California to Quebec, utilizing both countries'
postal services during the pandemic no less.
That's pretty darn good customer service if you ask me...
When I asked Nick how the shoes looked, he replied "different but well made".
Of course, he then added "once we get the car done, we'll put them to the pace".
Yep, proof is in the pudding for sure....

We chatted a while longer and he then thanked me for my support of the channel over all this time;
he again remembered and mentioned he was still having trouble logging into FBBO on his laptop and
that he was going to have to get his "computer guy" to look at it.

I'm just honored he took the time today. He didn't have to; we had already concluded our email convo
and I hadn't thought any more of it.
Now we know how that recommendation was borne....
did I mention that NICK! called me today? Me? I ain't nobody...
Holy cow!

 

[F4R/T]

I really dig Nick, this is what makes our hobby a great hobby. All share something and we get to learn as we go and lend a helping hand to those who need it... Nice little shout out to Nick! Way cool that he took the time to lend a hand!

 

[moparedtn]

Well, how about an update on parts procurement?
I feel comfortable reporting on the results of a TON of researching and digging online,
now that the order has been placed.
I am happy to report that I managed to locate ALL the parts MADE IN THE USA!
That said, it's quite the hodgepodge of brands.... but here goes:

Eis Front Left Wheel Cylinder. Old - but new in box!


Inline tube has full sets of DOT hoses, brand new and USA Made!

From Central Jersey Motor Parts comes the '69-up hardware from Ma Mopar herself
(NOS)!


Raybestos right front wheel cylinder - old but new, shows some shelf wear. USA of course! W36051


Quantity: 2
Wagner H2534 Self-Adjuster Kits (Left Side).


The rear Wagner-Lockheed wheel cylinders you know about already. I have them in hand, in fact...


Lastly, H2535 Wagner Self-adjuster hardware for Right Sides - (2) sets, of course. Made in USA!

Again, this took a TON of researching and digging to get done. I'd suggest anyone else wanting to go down
the path of redoing their own 11" drum brakes with all USA-made components - GET ON THE STICK!
This stuff is disappearing fast!

All of these are on order and will be arriving next week (hopefully).
All that remains is the return call to California to Porterfield to get the shoes coming and I should be all set!

 

[oldbee]

Well, how about an update on parts procurement?
I feel comfortable reporting on the results of a TON of researching and digging online,
now that the order has been placed.
I am happy to report that I managed to locate ALL the parts MADE IN THE USA!
That said, it's quite the hodgepodge of brands.... but here goes:
View attachment 1112737
Eis Front Left Wheel Cylinder. Old - but new in box!

View attachment 1112738
Inline tube has full sets of DOT hoses, brand new and USA Made!

View attachment 1112739 View attachment 1112740
From Central Jersey Motor Parts comes the '69-up hardware from Ma Mopar herself
(NOS)!

View attachment 1112741
Raybestos right front wheel cylinder - old but new, shows some shelf wear. USA of course! W36051

View attachment 1112742
Quantity: 2
Wagner H2534 Self-Adjuster Kits (Left Side).

View attachment 1112743
The rear Wagner-Lockheed wheel cylinders you know about already. I have them in hand, in fact...

View attachment 1112744
Lastly, H2535 Wagner Self-adjuster hardware for Right Sides - (2) sets, of course. Made in USA!

Again, this took a TON of researching and digging to get done. I'd suggest anyone else wanting to go down
the path of redoing their own 11" drum brakes with all USA-made components - GET ON THE STICK!
This stuff is disappearing fast!

All of these are on order and will be arriving next week (hopefully).
All that remains is the return call to California to Porterfield to get the shoes coming and I should be all set!

Your dedication is well appreciated, how much did the better-half contribute?!

 

[khryslerkid]

Reminds me when I was doing the '62. Lot's of research and tail chasing. Check inside of the wheel cylinders for any corrosion from sitting.

 

[moparedtn]

Your dedication is well appreciated, how much did the better-half contribute?!

Ummm....she didn't stop me?

 

[moparedtn]

Reminds me when I was doing the '62. Lot's of research and tail chasing. Check inside of the wheel cylinders for any corrosion from sitting.

Of course, sir!
After this exercise, I'm of the opinion that what I just did will very soon (if not already) be impossible.
I literally got the last ones of a couple items - and despite my best efforts of searching EVERYWHERE,
there just aren't any more out there.

As a general rule now:
- most all new (repro) hardware sold through parts sources is Chinese
- ALL new shoes, short of a custom builder like Porterfield, are Chinese or Mexican-sourced
- Raybestos still has some USA-made front wheel cylinders in the system - VERIFY!
- all new rear wheel cylinders are Chinese
- Inline has the only US-made hose sets, although Raybestos has some new old stock front hoses
only that are still US-made (their rear one is not)

I can't begin to tell you how many suppliers to the hobby told me that I had no choice but to accept
Chinese stuff...but y'all know me.
That just made me redouble the effort.

Oh, almost forgot - the whole shooting match I've listed here cost about $215 including shipping, in
case anyone wants to know. Another couple hundred to Porterfield and that'll do 'er.
I have (4) used 11x3 front drums (2 on the car now) and a pair of the rears to go to the machine shop,
where I don't expect any issue coming up with a working set.
Knock wood...

 

[khryslerkid]

Of course, sir!
After this exercise, I'm of the opinion that what I just did will very soon (if not already) be impossible.
I literally got the last ones of a couple items - and despite my best efforts of searching EVERYWHERE,
there just aren't any more out there.

As a general rule now:
- most all new (repro) hardware sold through parts sources is Chinese
- ALL new shoes, short of a custom builder like Porterfield, are Chinese or Mexican-sourced
- Raybestos still has some USA-made front wheel cylinders in the system - VERIFY!
- all new rear wheel cylinders are Chinese
- Inline has the only US-made hose sets, although Raybestos has some new old stock front hoses
only that are still US-made (their rear one is not)

I can't begin to tell you how many suppliers to the hobby told me that I had no choice but to accept
Chinese stuff...but y'all know me.
That just made me redouble the effort.

Oh, almost forgot - the whole shooting match I've listed here cost about $215 including shipping, in
case anyone wants to know. Another couple hundred to Porterfield and that'll do 'er.
I have (4) used 11x3 front drums (2 on the car now) and a pair of the rears to go to the machine shop,
where I don't expect any issue coming up with a working set.
Knock wood...

I went with some rebuilt cylinders or they might have been manufactured using the original castings. Maybe they were assembled out of the country (China/Mexico) but the castings were OEM. Found them at NAPA.

Linings were a PITA. Wrong frames, damaged lining, you name it. The '62 had a set of new replacements on the front that might have been installed years ago and never driven much so I used them. The rears were sourced at NAPA also but like stated went through several sets just to find a set. I was on a budget and some day I might replace them with a aftermarket grade. "Brakes in a Box" comes to mind? Carbon fiber lining? It's been awhile.

 

[F4R/T]

USA all the way! Canada is great too but I don’t know they made the stuff for brakes.
Thanks Ed! Much appreciated!

 

[moparedtn]

I went with some rebuilt cylinders or they might have been manufactured using the original castings. Maybe they were assembled out of the country (China/Mexico) but the castings were OEM. Found them at NAPA.
Linings were a PITA. Wrong frames, damaged lining, you name it. The '62 had a set of new replacements on the front that might have been installed years ago and never driven much so I used them. The rears were sourced at NAPA also but like stated went through several sets just to find a set. I was on a budget and some day I might replace them with a aftermarket grade. "Brakes in a Box" comes to mind? Carbon fiber lining? It's been awhile.

I know the folks at musclecarbrakes.com do a fine job; FBBO members like @Dennis H swear by them.
I would have gone that route probably had finances allowed it; the Porterfield brakes are expensive enough,
that's for sure.
Really with shoes, it's either aftermarket Chinesium or high-dollar "custom" stuff from either of these places.
That's it, short of getting lucky and finding some old new stuff (yes, like our resident NY fella here that I chose
not to deal with this time around).

It's probably fair to mention at this point that neither Nick (nor I, obviously) have actually installed the California shoes and tried them out yet - he has them in hand though and says they look great.
If I recall, they're kevlar, carbon and metallics in composition ("street" shoes);
they also make a really aggressive "race" shoe as well.
I'm anxious to see what the street ones are like.

 

[moparedtn]

USA all the way! Canada is great too but I don’t know they made the stuff for brakes.
Thanks Ed! Much appreciated!

Thanks my friend, I appreciate that.
When I locked down the rest of the parts order last night, I turned to my wife and in a sort of celebration
said "yesssss" with the fist pump and the whole deal.
She smirked and asked what I had actually accomplished, other than the usual "car junk" as she puts it.

When I explained it to her, she sort of got it - she knew I'd been working on it a lot - then asked if Fred
was going to have some sort of "super brakes".
I said "no - just what he'd have gotten 30 years ago, all from the local auto parts store - which was the
goal here."
She understood what a statement that made about our countries' outsourcing...