DRUM Brake Overhaul - Now, for something totally different...
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Update 5/24/21:
Most of the parts "won" on eBay arrived all together today via USPS - pretty remarkably quick,
all things considering.
The only straggler, if you can even call it that, is one lone left front wheel cylinder, which was
shipped today (and I have tracking info on now).
All the parts arrived in fine kettle, albeit in some pretty haggard shelf-worn packaging in some
instances - as was to be expected.
At this point, in addition to awaiting the arrival of the lone wheel cylinder, I also placed my order
with Porterfield Brakes for the shoes front and rear. VERY anxious to see what I get from them -
they are certainly the "unknown" in this whole thing, recommendations from others I respect
notwithstanding.
Right now, I can HEARTILY recommend the following sellers on eBay for their truthful advertising
AND their incredibly prompt shipping and handling:
pbrakes (Pacific Brake Bond) - source for the left front wheel cylinder
(seller on eBay since 2000; I've had more than one great transaction with him)
motorcitymusclecar (Motor City Muscle Car) They had the Inline Tube brake hose sets!
aliakshyk74 (SA Auto Inc) These folks had the '69-up "improved" self-adjusters - and although
the original (Wagner) packaging was literally falling apart from age, managed to
safely package all the parts and bits so that it got here in fine shape!
cjmp (Central Jersey Motor Parts) Yet again, Jack's bunch kicked *** (as he has for decades now)
and the Mopar original hardware kits, front and rear, arrived in perfect condition and FAST.
(Remember - he also was the source of the rear wheel cylinders a couple weeks back, also
quickly and perfectly delivered)
I also wish to thank Rick Ehrenberg (rehrenberg) for all the help and advice as always - and his integrity
played a role in this whole experiment as well, even if in the end the parts were all sourced elsewhere.
Finally...the reminder of the purpose of this project, yet again:
There are MANY sources of information, some right here on FBBO, on how to do what I'm doing here to a
concourse, perfect level; this project doesn't purport to do that, at all....
The point of this exercise is to see if it is still possible for the average Joe to service his stock drum brakes on
his Mopar on a typical Saturday in 1980 - using all USA-made parts - bought from the local parts store.
Here, 40+ years later - can that still be done?
Well, so far....forget about the "local parts store" bit, because all the parts bought there (once they've ordered
them for you of course) will be Chinese-made, with little exception.
The "service" part (that would be me
) is yet to be seen, but I'm not too worried - yet.
Most of the parts "won" on eBay arrived all together today via USPS - pretty remarkably quick,
all things considering.
The only straggler, if you can even call it that, is one lone left front wheel cylinder, which was
shipped today (and I have tracking info on now).
All the parts arrived in fine kettle, albeit in some pretty haggard shelf-worn packaging in some
instances - as was to be expected.
At this point, in addition to awaiting the arrival of the lone wheel cylinder, I also placed my order
with Porterfield Brakes for the shoes front and rear. VERY anxious to see what I get from them -
they are certainly the "unknown" in this whole thing, recommendations from others I respect
notwithstanding.
Right now, I can HEARTILY recommend the following sellers on eBay for their truthful advertising
AND their incredibly prompt shipping and handling:
pbrakes (Pacific Brake Bond) - source for the left front wheel cylinder
(seller on eBay since 2000; I've had more than one great transaction with him)
motorcitymusclecar (Motor City Muscle Car) They had the Inline Tube brake hose sets!
aliakshyk74 (SA Auto Inc) These folks had the '69-up "improved" self-adjusters - and although
the original (Wagner) packaging was literally falling apart from age, managed to
safely package all the parts and bits so that it got here in fine shape!
cjmp (Central Jersey Motor Parts) Yet again, Jack's bunch kicked *** (as he has for decades now)
and the Mopar original hardware kits, front and rear, arrived in perfect condition and FAST.
(Remember - he also was the source of the rear wheel cylinders a couple weeks back, also
quickly and perfectly delivered)
I also wish to thank Rick Ehrenberg (rehrenberg) for all the help and advice as always - and his integrity
played a role in this whole experiment as well, even if in the end the parts were all sourced elsewhere.
Finally...the reminder of the purpose of this project, yet again:
There are MANY sources of information, some right here on FBBO, on how to do what I'm doing here to a
concourse, perfect level; this project doesn't purport to do that, at all....
The point of this exercise is to see if it is still possible for the average Joe to service his stock drum brakes on
his Mopar on a typical Saturday in 1980 - using all USA-made parts - bought from the local parts store.
Here, 40+ years later - can that still be done?
Well, so far....forget about the "local parts store" bit, because all the parts bought there (once they've ordered
them for you of course) will be Chinese-made, with little exception.
The "service" part (that would be me
) is yet to be seen, but I'm not too worried - yet.
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Thanks for hanging in here with me, sir. I appreciate the kind words.
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Well, since it appears the Porterfield shoes will be arriving this week, I suppose it's time to start
preparing for the work...
First, the drums - going with the assumption that what I was told is true when I bought Fred, the
brakes had supposedly been gone through with parts store shoes and resurfacing of the drums...
The rears, I'm not too worried about either way, since they're readily available should I wind up
needing to replace them - but the ones on the car will be taken to the machine shop for mic-ing
and machining first.
The fronts I feel I have covered as well - not only are there the fronts on the car, but I have a
spare pair as well, bought off CL some years ago for $20. Not kidding....and they've been machined
already, too:
As with the rears, all (4) will be brought to the machine shop and the best (2) will be picked out and
resurfaced.
On to the bits!
preparing for the work...
First, the drums - going with the assumption that what I was told is true when I bought Fred, the
brakes had supposedly been gone through with parts store shoes and resurfacing of the drums...
The rears, I'm not too worried about either way, since they're readily available should I wind up
needing to replace them - but the ones on the car will be taken to the machine shop for mic-ing
and machining first.
The fronts I feel I have covered as well - not only are there the fronts on the car, but I have a
spare pair as well, bought off CL some years ago for $20. Not kidding....and they've been machined
already, too:
As with the rears, all (4) will be brought to the machine shop and the best (2) will be picked out and
resurfaced.
On to the bits!
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The adjuster kits are Wagner and are for the '69-up, since I'm upgrading Fred's
1968 ones (they never seem to stay adjusted, which is probably why Mopar changed
the design in 1969).
The original plastic packages are old enough that they literally crumble if handled much, so
all parts were verified and the whole messes put in bags by Left or Right sides.
Brake hardware all came from Central Jersey Motor Parts and are Mopar new (old stock) stuff.
Hoses came from Inline Tube and are spankin' new USA, includes hardware and even the brass junction block for the rear axle. (Yes, all DOT stampings are present.)
Nice!
Front wheel cylinders, Left and Right. Eis and Wagner-Lockheed, respectively.
I popped them apart and had a gander. Good to go.
(All pics expand if you click on them)
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Rear wheel cylinders, both Wagner-Lockheed. Interiors look fine and new.
Well, that's it for now. Of course, I'll need to fetch a bunch of brake fluid, Brakleen and a handful of spare
copper washers, but short of the shoes arriving and the machine shop day, I think I'm all set!
Ironbuilt
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5 pages and haven't turned a wrench yet.
33 IMP
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Ed, im sure its been covered somewhere in this thread, but i missed it.
Master cylinder?
Im keeping the ten inch drums on my 62, for now, but since i have to redo the fronts and put on a linelock, i think it best to change the single pot master out.
Im gonna try a 69 drum brake master from a roadrunner.
Did you have to do yours, and if you did, did you find a US source?
Master cylinder?
Im keeping the ten inch drums on my 62, for now, but since i have to redo the fronts and put on a linelock, i think it best to change the single pot master out.
Im gonna try a 69 drum brake master from a roadrunner.
Did you have to do yours, and if you did, did you find a US source?
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"Well, since it appears the Porterfield shoes will be arriving this week, I suppose it's time to start
preparing for the work..."
For the benefit of those with reading comprehension issues, all parts were not received at that time (hence
the quote from my post immediately before).
I planned on driving Fred up until time to do the job - which I've been doing - and the job wasn't going to
begin until ALL parts were in hand and ready to rock.
I've been describing the journey of finding all American parts to do the work with - and certainly other members
have been participating in the discussion as we've gone along, which I love of course (kind of the whole point
of this flucking forum, after all).
If that timetable doesn't meet with certain self-appointed taskmasters, tough ****.
Feel free to engage in the behavior so wisely offered by one of the Mods just recently to myself - namely,
don't read it.
Back on ignore with you....
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we missed you Ed
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Doubtful.... ;-)we missed you Ed
To summarize though, I DO finally have the shoes in hand from Porterfield and they look AWESOME - and yes, they produced them "on demand" as a result of my order, so they're fresh - and kinda scary looking.
The plan is to go after this job this weekend.
Ironbuilt
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Posting like a teenage girl looking for attention.
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UPDATE 6/7/21:
Disclaimer - you know, I debated whether or not to continue with this thread, for the very reasons
I gave when I started it - namely, that this subject has been done to death by MUCH better craftsmen,
doing MUCH more detailed show-quality work, than the likes of shadetree me.
After my unceremonious dumping into solitary for the last week here, I REALLY considered it and more....
but you know what?
Fluck it.
I started this to see for myself if the average Saturday morning mechanic could still service his own
drum brakes using all USA parts in this day and age, nothing more.
Reason? Fred's brakes suck, simply put. I know they can be better.
If someone else finds it useful (either in a positive or negative way) or entertaining even (well, it IS me
after all - something has to happen sooner or later), great - but I'm doing this to see if I still can, too -
because it won't likely happen again by my hands.
So....on to the pics!
First, the new shoes from Porterfield. "R4-S" compound, their "street compound" made up of kevlar, carbon
and heavy percentages of metallics:
The camera's flash bleaches these things out a lot. In person, they're "rare earth black" - like REALLY black
and very aggressive with metallic content. Spooky, but just what I was after.... 336 Front, 446 Rear.
Disclaimer - you know, I debated whether or not to continue with this thread, for the very reasons
I gave when I started it - namely, that this subject has been done to death by MUCH better craftsmen,
doing MUCH more detailed show-quality work, than the likes of shadetree me.
After my unceremonious dumping into solitary for the last week here, I REALLY considered it and more....
but you know what?
Fluck it.
I started this to see for myself if the average Saturday morning mechanic could still service his own
drum brakes using all USA parts in this day and age, nothing more.
Reason? Fred's brakes suck, simply put. I know they can be better.
If someone else finds it useful (either in a positive or negative way) or entertaining even (well, it IS me
after all - something has to happen sooner or later), great - but I'm doing this to see if I still can, too -
because it won't likely happen again by my hands.
So....on to the pics!
First, the new shoes from Porterfield. "R4-S" compound, their "street compound" made up of kevlar, carbon
and heavy percentages of metallics:
The camera's flash bleaches these things out a lot. In person, they're "rare earth black" - like REALLY black
and very aggressive with metallic content. Spooky, but just what I was after.... 336 Front, 446 Rear.
My fronts are a silvery metallic from the 70's that stop real good( after warmed up). Winter wasn't so good. Let us know how the shoes work on 1st couple stops when cool. Jeff
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Starting out this evening nice and easy, I went for the rears on the car first...
On Fred, I have to jack the body up as opposed to the rear axle in order to clear the wheel/tire
out of the wheelwell, then place a stand under the axle afterwards, so that's what I did on both
sides.
Moment of truth time, since I had no idea what brakes were actually on the car except for what
the mechanic had told me years ago - namely, that he had replaced all the shoes with parts store
stuff (read: cardboard from China).
I didn't know if there would be leaky wheel cylinders or ate up drums or missing hardware or....
Ah heck with it, here we go (pics should enlarge if you click on them):
Driver's side rear....and no drama to speak of at all!
The car obviously has the really old adjuster setup on it (the bottom shoe spring also acts as the retainer
for the adjuster screw) that WILL be replaced with all new 1969-up self-adjuster hardware.
The wheel cylinder shows NO leakage anywhere (and I've been under the car and bled them in the past;
fluid is getting in there) and the crapstore shoes are dry.
On to the right side...
Reflections in the pic aside, the right (passenger) side shows identical condition to the left.
No leaks, nothing broken, just crappy shoes and old style hardware.
The drums?
The left (drivers') drum looks fine, as if it had been turned back when the old mechanic had done the work
years ago (Fred doesn't have a lot of miles since I've owned him, really - maybe 1000?).
Plenty of meat left, very smooth, slight glazing - oh, and an anti-vibration spring around the outside!
(The fluid is Brakleen I shot it with pooling up some).
Right (passenger) rear drum. In almost identical condition to the left rear, minus the anti-vibe spring.
Conclusions so far? If I was actually doing a "for real" Saturday brake renew here, I'd be scuffing up the
drums with a Scotchbrite, replacing the shoes and hardware and moving on!
Yes, all this is good news...so far.
On Fred, I have to jack the body up as opposed to the rear axle in order to clear the wheel/tire
out of the wheelwell, then place a stand under the axle afterwards, so that's what I did on both
sides.
Moment of truth time, since I had no idea what brakes were actually on the car except for what
the mechanic had told me years ago - namely, that he had replaced all the shoes with parts store
stuff (read: cardboard from China).
I didn't know if there would be leaky wheel cylinders or ate up drums or missing hardware or....
Ah heck with it, here we go (pics should enlarge if you click on them):
Driver's side rear....and no drama to speak of at all!
The car obviously has the really old adjuster setup on it (the bottom shoe spring also acts as the retainer
for the adjuster screw) that WILL be replaced with all new 1969-up self-adjuster hardware.
The wheel cylinder shows NO leakage anywhere (and I've been under the car and bled them in the past;
fluid is getting in there) and the crapstore shoes are dry.
On to the right side...
Reflections in the pic aside, the right (passenger) side shows identical condition to the left.
No leaks, nothing broken, just crappy shoes and old style hardware.
The drums?
The left (drivers') drum looks fine, as if it had been turned back when the old mechanic had done the work
years ago (Fred doesn't have a lot of miles since I've owned him, really - maybe 1000?).
Plenty of meat left, very smooth, slight glazing - oh, and an anti-vibration spring around the outside!
(The fluid is Brakleen I shot it with pooling up some).
Right (passenger) rear drum. In almost identical condition to the left rear, minus the anti-vibe spring.
Conclusions so far? If I was actually doing a "for real" Saturday brake renew here, I'd be scuffing up the
drums with a Scotchbrite, replacing the shoes and hardware and moving on!
Yes, all this is good news...so far.
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Hey, sorry, just catching up with things here after my "vacation"...
The master cylinder on Fred now was new when I bought him over a decade ago (appears to be the right one, too).
I'm not planning on replacing it just yet - unless I don't get the pedal pressure results I'm after from all the other
work - and you're correct, replacing it with a US-sourced one might very well prove to be VERY difficult.
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"To the floor" is to the floor - brake pedal don't know genders.
She's well versed in the process and plenty capable; those ***-kicking skills are intact.
I almost want to think that musclecarbrakes.com might be sourcing their shoes from Porterfield - from the pics
I've seen and things I've read, they sound very similar (although I can't find anywhere on the MCB site where
they claim theirs are USA-made?).
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