Here we go. One last time...

[moparedtn]

You will be amazed that a high performance clutch could be so easy to push down the pedal. You may even think something is wrong, ---but it is not..........................MO

That's the thing - what actually gets the clutch pedal to return all the way up now?
Or does it?

 

[NJRR]

My McLeod diaphram clutch returns very smoothly. I can't give you a comparison about a "regular" clutch that uses the overcenter spring because I went right to the diaphram when I converted my RR to a 4 speed. The diaphram definitely has more resistance than a modern european or jap clutch, but nothing that makes it undriveable.

 

[coloradodave]

Ed, The diaphram uses a belleville spring, which you see as all the 'fingers' that the throw-out bearing pushes on when you push down the pedal. This spring then returns the pedal to the top when you release it. The spring on the linkage next to the bell-housing provides the last little bit of upward movement and acts as an anti-rattle device.
Removing the top large spring does not affect the operation of the clutch in normal use.

 

[moparedtn]

Ed, The diaphram uses a belleville spring, which you see as all the 'fingers' that the throw-out bearing pushes on when you push down the pedal. This spring then returns the pedal to the top when you release it. The spring on the linkage next to the bell-housing provides the last little bit of upward movement and acts as an anti-rattle device.
Removing the top large spring does not affect the operation of the clutch in normal use.

Ah, I see, thanks.
Does this mean that a fella could judge the clutch adjustment by where the pedal rests? In other words, is the clutch set right if the clutch pedal is all the way up?

 

[coloradodave]

Ah, I see, thanks.
Does this mean that a fella could judge the clutch adjustment by where the pedal rests? In other words, is the clutch set right if the clutch pedal is all the way up?

No, that's not what it means. Your clutch set should come with directions on how much free play is required when the pedal is up. The other thing that is important is how far forward the bearing travels when you push the pedal to the floor. Again, your clutch should have a recommendation for clearance between the disc and the pressure plate/flywheel, measured with a set of feeler gauges from below. If you have a lot more clearance that you can't adjust out and still maintain the free play, you may need to install a clutch pedal 'stop' to limit the travel. High percentage chance that you won't have to do this.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

No, that's not what it means. Your clutch set should come with directions on how much free play is required when the pedal is up. The other thing that is important is how far forward the bearing travels when you push the pedal to the floor. Again, your clutch should have a recommendation for clearance between the disc and the pressure plate/flywheel, measured with a set of feeler gauges from below. If you have a lot more clearance that you can't adjust out and still maintain the free play, you may need to install a clutch pedal 'stop' to limit the travel. High percentage chance that you won't have to do this.

These are the reasons I keep harping on having the correct clutch linkage , from pedal to throw out bearing. And there is more to having all the correct pieces than most people would expect. I'm pretty sure you have a clutch pedal stop............................MO

 

[moparedtn]

No, that's not what it means. Your clutch set should come with directions on how much free play is required when the pedal is up. The other thing that is important is how far forward the bearing travels when you push the pedal to the floor. Again, your clutch should have a recommendation for clearance between the disc and the pressure plate/flywheel, measured with a set of feeler gauges from below. If you have a lot more clearance that you can't adjust out and still maintain the free play, you may need to install a clutch pedal 'stop' to limit the travel. High percentage chance that you won't have to do this.

Thanks again, Dave.
It might just be me, but I can't find any video or instructions online for this clutch being installed on a 440 - or any Mopar, for that matter.
No instructions on the Centerforce website, no video on YouTube, nothing - just the usual "generic motors" stuff. Nothing on the Brewer's site, either.
Those installation instructions are apparently closely guarded secrets.
While I do understand installation is pretty much the same on any American V8, I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of Mopar-specific instruction for this specific clutch online.

Before anyone even suggests it, no. I won't be making any videos, either.
Last thing anyone needs is to watch me fumble my way through it, either.

 

[moparedtn]

These are the reasons I keep harping on having the correct clutch linkage , from pedal to throw out bearing. And there is more to having all the correct pieces than most people would expect. I'm pretty sure you have a clutch pedal stop............................MO

I reckon I do - the pedal hits something rubber with a resounding THUMP when it comes up.

So far as having the right linkage goes, I have faith there, too. Things worked well before in the clutch department and as you know, I've fetched all new hardware, clips, bearings, clutch rod, etc. for this deal.
Pedal assembly under dash looks mint, somewhat surprisingly, and the rod that passes through the firewall looks new and not bent at all, too.

Honestly, I went with the diaphragm type clutch this time by means of trying to avoid the heavy pedal pressure, that's all.
That's been another hard pill to swallow. I've had a lot of cars over the years with heavy clutches in them and always liked them - but I have to admit getting out of the car after participating in a parade, for example, feeling like I've just had a Schwartzenegger-like workout on my left leg has gotten old, too.
If I live long enough to get past all this, I'd like to tackle the manual steering and brakes next, in fact. Pipe dreams...
I'm not foolhardy enough to actually make plans for such things, of course. Too much of a realist to go there - but I let my mind wander sometimes...

 

[BeeKool]

Good morning Ed.

 

[moparedtn]

Good morning Ed.

Mornin' BK!

 

[Fran Blacker]

These are the reasons I keep harping on having the correct clutch linkage , from pedal to throw out bearing. And there is more to having all the correct pieces than most people would expect. I'm pretty sure you have a clutch pedal stop............................MO

Sorry for jumping in.
Cornpatch no wonder I didn't have a problem with pedal sticking to the floor, no spring. I removed the assembly from a car must not have had a spring then. I was thinking I had a 62 Dodge clutch car and the pedal would sit on the floor if I pushed, no linkage on it.
This question may help Ed.
I have my linkage disengage the clutch near the floor, NG for quick shifts. Didn't what to over center clutch. This is my first 4 speed should I adjust clutch to disengage near the top and put a block under clutch pedal to limit travel? I don't plan on wacking to many gears.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

Thanks again, Dave.
It might just be me, but I can't find any video or instructions online for this clutch being installed on a 440 - or any Mopar, for that matter.
No instructions on the Centerforce website, no video on YouTube, nothing - just the usual "generic motors" stuff. Nothing on the Brewer's site, either.
Those installation instructions are apparently closely guarded secrets.
While I do understand installation is pretty much the same on any American V8, I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of Mopar-specific instruction for this specific clutch online.

Before anyone even suggests it, no. I won't be making any videos, either.
Last thing anyone needs is to watch me fumble my way through it, either.

I don't recall getting specific directions with my Centerforce either. It was just put iin there, check for pedal free play, and good to go. I do know that in the past, some clutches do require specific clearance with a feeler guage when the clutch is dis engaged. Check with Brewers for your peace of mind...you have spent enough $ that they should be more than willing to answer any of your questions......................MO

 

[Cornpatch MO]

Sorry for jumping in.
Cornpatch no wonder I didn't have a problem with pedal sticking to the floor, no spring. I removed the assembly from a car must not have had a spring then. I was thinking I had a 62 Dodge clutch car and the pedal would sit on the floor if I pushed, no linkage on it.
This question may help Ed.
I have my linkage disengage the clutch near the floor, NG for quick shifts. Didn't what to over center clutch. This is my first 4 speed should I adjust clutch to disengage near the top and put a block under clutch pedal to limit travel? I don't plan on wacking to many gears.

On my set up, after the pedal takes up what little free play I have, it is probably dis- engaged at 1/2 travel. I tried the block on the floor ideah with the clutch that stuck down, but that did not help at all, and made shifting smoothly, nearly impossible. BTW , that clutch I had that stuck down, was at 6000+ RPM. Most of us street guys don't need that kind of rpm anyway...................MO

 

[440+6]

http://media.centerforce.com/Inserts/I12MI017.pdf

 

[Cornpatch MO]

http://media.centerforce.com/Inserts/I12MI017.pdf

Good info. I wonder what circumstances a "block" would need to be installed? Probably a pedal assembly and floor "toe board" that are not original to each other. Guess auto engineers take more into account than just that it "will work" Thankful that my 64 Dodge worked right the first time.........................MO

 

[oldbee]

Not an expert by any means but I always thought you could "feel" if clutch diaphragm went over-center. Not good by any means. Drove a bunch of 4-spds., but I'm a torqueflite man. I would think feeler gauges are a necessity anymore? I'm more in tune with 15-1/2" ceramic single discs on semi's! Last 25+ yrs.LOL. But I know that hydraulics are pain in the a--. I always thought diaphragms were more prone to go over-center than 3-fingers.(?)

 

[coloradodave]

Ed,
440-6 was kind enough to get you Centerforce's directions and they're in easy to understand terms. BTW, these directions are not car brand specific. The stop I was talking about would be between the pedal and the firewall, to limit travel. As cornpatch Mo said, most likely that won't be needed. The rubber cushion at the top of the pedal travel can be removed or trimmed to give you more free play if necessary. So, to re-iterate, after installation you have 3 things to check: Setting free-play as the manufacturer stated; Having your wife push in the pedal with you under the car with the required feeler gauges, making sure that the correct clearance is there as stated by Centerforce; and making sure that the throw-out bearing is not pushing the fingers of the diaphram in excessively. You will love the clutch. Easy pedal pressure and great lock-up. What could be better?

 

[Fran Blacker]

Ed,
440-6 was kind enough to get you Centerforce's directions and they're in easy to understand terms. BTW, these directions are not car brand specific. The stop I was talking about would be between the pedal and the firewall, to limit travel. As cornpatch Mo said, most likely that won't be needed. The rubber cushion at the top of the pedal travel can be removed or trimmed to give you more free play if necessary. So, to re-iterate, after installation you have 3 things to check: Setting free-play as the manufacturer stated; Having your wife push in the pedal with you under the car with the required feeler gauges, making sure that the correct clearance is there as stated by Centerforce; and making sure that the throw-out bearing is not pushing the fingers of the diaphram in excessively. You will love the clutch. Easy pedal pressure and great lock-up. What could be better?

What happens if you have a one piece scatter shield? Like me.

 

[moparedtn]

Sorry for jumping in.
Cornpatch no wonder I didn't have a problem with pedal sticking to the floor, no spring. I removed the assembly from a car must not have had a spring then. I was thinking I had a 62 Dodge clutch car and the pedal would sit on the floor if I pushed, no linkage on it.
This question may help Ed.
I have my linkage disengage the clutch near the floor, NG for quick shifts. Didn't what to over center clutch. This is my first 4 speed should I adjust clutch to disengage near the top and put a block under clutch pedal to limit travel? I don't plan on wacking to many gears.

I'm no expert, but I'd think you'd want it right in the middle of pedal travel. I suppose it's a matter of preference, though - I like my clutches to engage about half to 2/3 of the way up myself.

 

[moparedtn]

http://media.centerforce.com/Inserts/I12MI017.pdf

Thanks, appreciate it very much.
Although that isn't installation instructions, it does sort of validate the theory of adjustment I've always had - I like my clutches to be "all in" by about halfway up or a little bit more.