I Finally Did It.....EFI

[1 Wild R/T]

Threewood, first of all I have a FiTech; the Sniper might be a more reliable product given Holley's decades of OEM experience in the automotive industry. I'm leaving out all the dozens of minor issues, highlighting just the main ones:
- After less than 3 years the electric fuel pump in the Fuel Command Center died. That's the incident Kern so eloquently referred to in #13.
- Ditched the FCC, went with an intank setup from Tanks Inc.
- About a year later, the engine died while driving down the road. I was able to restart, turned around to go home. Died about 1/2 mile away. Restarted, made it home, died again pulling into the garage, wouldn't start again. Returned the TB to FiTech and they sent me a Gen II unit ( 4 + 2 harness vs. the original 6 pin harness)
- The TB has a heat soak issue. It starts when cold and now runs fine but won't start once it hits operating temp and the engine is turned off for over 10 minutes. The IAC steps are in spec, the prime multi setting has been increased, decreased, left the same. Warm start setting has been enriched. I have to take off the air cleaner, spray Starter Fluid down the venturis to finally get it to start.
- This last spring the handheld controller died. I swapped my neighbor's handheld and it worked so its definitely the handheld. FiTech doesn't sell the current version anymore, have to fork out another $200 for the newest version. So over the course of five years, all three major components of the system have had to be replaced.

My somewhat flippant remark wasn't directed at you Threewood, instead it was aimed at the potential reader who is considering switching from a carb to EFI. The marketing narrative that switching to EFI is only $995 and a Sunday afternoon installation is false. You already updated the fuel delivery system which is the hardest part of the conversion. I get that lots of people have installed EFI with little to no issues, and I sincerely have nothing but best wishes for your install.

Have you checked voltage at the red wire while cranking? If the voltage drops below about 10.5 v the ECM shuts down... Hitting it with starting fluid means it doesn't need fuel till the alternator provides enough voltage to wake up the ECM.... A weak battery (single bad cell) will cause this even though the starter still cranks ok...

Another possibility is a leaking injector which would cause a flooding concern..... Try cranking with the throttle wide open to clear the excess fuel, same as a carb....

Third possibility is insufficient fuel, try cycling the key, allow the FiTech to go completely through it's cycle, then shut the key off & back on, again let the unit complete it's cycle... After a hot soak the ECT will likely be reading 250+ degrees so the fuel pulse will be really short, quite possibly to short...

 

[69 GTX]

Good luck! Your a braver man than me. Seems every AVS type carb I've ever had always had some issue I could get corrected to my satisfaction. I bought a beater truck that has a newer eddy AVS. I can't seem to get the low end pop out of it either. I'll be throwing a Holley on it shortly, I know I can tune those to run perfectly. Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge with them, but I can get a Holley tuned in in a couple hours.

 

[threewood]

Good luck! Your a braver man than me. Seems every AVS type carb I've ever had always had some issue I could get corrected to my satisfaction. I bought a beater truck that has a newer eddy AVS. I can't seem to get the low end pop out of it either. I'll be throwing a Holley on it shortly, I know I can tune those to run perfectly. Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge with them, but I can get a Holley tuned in in a couple hours.

The carbs I was looking at were getting up there in price. Close enough to EFI so that's the choice I made. I'll really get started putting it together today.

 

[threewood]

Honestly 87 & 30 are often reversed, in some applications power is connected to 87 & ground is connected to 87A so when the circuit isn't powered it acts as a ground....

87A isn't used in this application.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

87A isn't used in this application.

Understood, but the point is 87 & 30 being reversed doesn't matter...

 

[threewood]

Main wiring is pretty much done. I still need to put in the new o2 sensor and coolant sensor. Coil - wire (Yellow) was way short so I added a length from a parts harness I have. Switched ign pink to br bl side ballast.

The additional output harness was full of stuff I'm not using. So I took them all out except the brown wire (tach output).

And I cut and welded my bracket to fit the Sniper.

 

[Kern Dog]

It seems that the FITech business model was attempting to market an affordable system. Unfortunately in many cases, they ended up functioning like the Harbor Freight of EFI.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

It seems that the FITech business model was attempting to market an affordable system. Unfortunately in many cases, they ended up functioning like the Harbor Freight of EFI.

There are plenty of FiTech systems out there that run great.... There are some with problems for sure... FiTech does have a one year warranty so you should be able to get the system sorted out while it's under warranty, sometimes they break after the warranty is up... Sucks but I spent four times as much on a Holley system back around 2000 that never really ran right... People act like Holley has a superior product, and to a point they do have some nice features, but they never would have lowered their price to what it is now if FiTech or someone like them hadn't come allong & undercut Holley's price....

 

[threewood]

Just about there. Ran fuel lines in 3/8". The coolant sensor was a pain. It's not the skinny size as stock but a thicker 3/8" npt so I had to make a fitting.

I still need to hardwire the + and -, plus put in the new o2 sensor. I'm tired, having a drink at the moment.

 

[kiwigtx]

My somewhat flippant remark wasn't directed at you Threewood, instead it was aimed at the potential reader who is considering switching from a carb to EFI. The marketing narrative that switching to EFI is only $995 and a Sunday afternoon installation is false. You already updated the fuel delivery system which is the hardest part of the conversion. I get that lots of people have installed EFI with little to no issues, and I sincerely have nothing but best wishes for your install.

Agreed. It was more than a casual Sunday afternoon for my installation. Maybe the guy fitting out a Camaro in the 'How to video' did it in a single day.....but was it done safely and correctly? I used all double braided stainless hose and correct AN fittings for the custom made tank to the TBI unit, including external pump and filters. It is no easy or fast task to install if it is being done for keeps. I would never trey to use the rubber hose and barb fitings...to easy to burst of get damaged - given the fuel pressure is a constant 57psi at the TBI, and potentially 80+psi at the pump.
I also used the newly produced custom Lokar bracket designed specifically for the Sniper baseplate to accommodate both a kickdown and throttle cable.

 

[threewood]

I got it up and running last night. FBBO was broken so I couldn't post anything. It runs nice. Fired right up, everything works. No regrets.

As for using barbs and rubber hose on efi connections, it has been done for years. Factory cars have rubber for connections, and connecting in-line fuel filters.

 

[threewood]

Make sure you have your Christmas shopping all done. It would suck to get elbow deep in this project and pop up to see it is 12-24 and you have a BUNCH of shopping to do.
That is why I am delaying my Tremec 5 speed swap a little while.

Nope. It's 98% done, waiting on adapter bracket for TBI so I can actually drive it instead of sit in it while it's running lol.

Time to move onto a go kart I'm building.

 

[threewood]

@CoronetDarter
I didn't take anything said as directed toward me so no worries. It is NOT an easy install and I'm pretty capable at fixing stuff. It took me about a day to install the Sniper, which is mostly wiring. A few necessary mods to get the hard parts installed takes time.

The fuel tank upgrade is another full day. Dicking with hardlines is a pain. Plus running the wiring for the relay is time consuming.

 

[andyf]

Main wiring is pretty much done. I still need to put in the new o2 sensor and coolant sensor. Coil - wire (Yellow) was way short so I added a length from a parts harness I have. Switched ign pink to br bl side ballast.
View attachment 1040367 View attachment 1040370 View attachment 1040371

The additional output harness was full of stuff I'm not using. So I took them all out except the brown wire (tach output).
View attachment 1040375
View attachment 1040378

And I cut and welded my bracket to fit the Sniper.
View attachment 1040379
View attachment 1040380

I make Sniper throttle brackets. http://arengineering.com/home-page/throttle-bracket-kits/

 

[andyf]

Here is a Sniper XFlow going on a 700 hp big block in a RoadRunner that I have in my shop.

 

[andyf]

@CoronetDarter
I didn't take anything said as directed toward me so no worries. It is NOT an easy install and I'm pretty capable at fixing stuff. It took me about a day to install the Sniper, which is mostly wiring. A few necessary mods to get the hard parts installed takes time.

The fuel tank upgrade is another full day. Dicking with hardlines is a pain. Plus running the wiring for the relay is time consuming.

You are correct, the Sniper is not an easy install, especially into a Mopar. The Sniper Stealth is an easier install since factory throttle brackets will line up with it. The square style Sniper is wider than a carb so the factory linkage doesn't line up. The electrical install is difficult in a Mopar since Mopars don't have 12 volt crank and run combined in a circuit. Many Mopar guys have trouble figuring out how to wire a Sniper. It gets even more complicated when you add the Hyperspark ignition kit since then you need to feed 12 volt crank and run to three devices. I build custom harnesses for my customers but it is time consuming and expensive.

 

[andyf]

Just about there. Ran fuel lines in 3/8". The coolant sensor was a pain. It's not the skinny size as stock but a thicker 3/8" npt so I had to make a fitting.

I still need to hardwire the + and -, plus put in the new o2 sensor. I'm tired, having a drink at the moment.

View attachment 1040502 View attachment 1040504 View attachment 1040505

I make a special thermostat adapter for the coolant sensor: http://arengineering.com/products/thermostat-spacer-with-efi-sensor-port/

 

[Don Frelier]

Those look to be regular hose clamps if so you really should use the high pressure style.
I hope the hose is rated for fuel injection.

 

[rmchrgr]

I got it up and running last night. FBBO was broken so I couldn't post anything. It runs nice. Fired right up, everything works. No regrets.

As for using barbs and rubber hose on efi connections, it has been done for years. Factory cars have rubber for connections, and connecting in-line fuel filters.

Nice, I'm right there with ya. Been driving my Sniper-equipped Coronet regularly for about two months now, really amazing how well it works without a whole lot of fuss. Literally bone stock 383 with headers and 4 speed, runs light years better than it ever did with a carburetor and the OE dual point distributor. Really helps to have good, accurate spark and precisely controlled fuel delivery that remains consistent despite different ambient conditions. Save for bumping up the initial timing 2 degrees and setting the idle rpm, I have not touched a thing, just starts up and goes.

I went with the whole system from front to back - basic, 4150 Sniper, new gas tank with in tank pump, Hyperspark distributor, ignition and coil. Made my own lines with 3/8" steel tubing, Aeroquip hose and -AN fittings. I enjoy plumbing though and prefer the aluminum fittings but some may not have the desire to go that route, it can get expensive. Used some of Andy's parts including his Sniper throttle cable bracket and t-stat spacer for the ECT sensor. Both parts made life easier for sure.

The wiring was indeed a pain, I've posted about my dissatisfaction with the Holley-supplied wiring a few times. Maybe some day they will make a Mopar-specific harness but I won't hold my breath, probably not high up on their product development list.

 

[andyf]

I might have been the first to install a Sniper on a Mopar. Holley sent me one of the very first Sniper systems for a magazine article and I installed it on my '65 Coronet. The wiring was a big hack job since I was on a dead line. I talked to Holley marketing back then (3 years ago) and told them that they needed to provide an unterminated wiring kit so people could build their own Sniper harness. The guy told me "good idea, we'll put it on the list" and then nothing every came of it. The harness that comes with the Sniper can only be used in a few applications. Most of the time the owner will need to modify the harness and/or build a new one from scratch.