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Invested in the markets?

Probably 15 years or more ago my grandfather told me of a man at the food counter at his local store that had steaks and lots of other things as well as a bag of dog food, granddad watched the guy pay for everything with his food stamps when the lady said to him you cant pay for the dog food with your stamps he had a fit and argued with the lady. Finally he said ok, grabbed the bag took it back and brought out some expensive steaks and told the lady, you win, the dog will eat as good as me wont he!... These are the people that gets me off, there is ones out there that needs help and i don't have a problem with that but ive seen people on the street corners talking to people and friends making deals with things like those stamps, now im told its not real stamps now, they come like a credit card thats computerized, so they let the person go in buy the stuff and then make a cash deal outside. I know these stores in that small town knows whats going on they know everyone in town and let it happen. there is no compromise when it comes to money, and when it comes to government compromise is how much can you or me take before we loose it. Election time comes and they all know we the people are pisced, there going to say just what they think we want to hear, im wondering if this country can bounce back... Voting is going to be hard everyone who runs will need to be put under a microscope to find out just what past issues were, what they really feel because they will play on what we want, and worse what we need done and stopped, it will be deceptive to say the least i would vote for whoever is doing what we need, i don't care if its Rep. or Dem. who ever will do the job, thats the one who needs to be elected.
 
Voting is going to be hard everyone who runs will need to be put under a microscope to find out just what past issues were, what they really feel because they will play on what we want, and worse what we need done and stopped, it will be deceptive to say the least i would vote for whoever is doing what we need, i don't care if its Rep. or Dem. who ever will do the job, thats the one who needs to be elected.

Ron, I snipped your quote to highlight this sentence. Just wanted to say that I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. The days of straight-ticket voting need to end now. People need to realize that not every member of their particularly chosen party is the best man for that particular job. More than anything, THAT is what has gotten us into this mess. People don't know or care who they vote for, nor do they think about what that person will do in office, they just know Republican or Democrat or that man with the nice hair, or the guy that seems like he'd be fun to have a beer with, or those two crazy ladies from MN and AK that everybody wants to sleep with. Makes me sick.

I really should stop getting involved in political threads, but political communication has been my life for 10 years. Old habits die hard, you know. Back to Mopars!
 
I try to not say anything with this stuff, but im mad to, there is some things going on over my way things i cant change and the government and state laws that are written is a joke plain and simple. Its a game to them were the pawns in there master chess games with our lives what we will have and what we will put up with. Im done, all these lead to is arguments ill do good to watch and fume over the governmental politics that "dictate" how were going to live. I don't blame anyone for being mad, hell, the rest of the country is to unless your on the hill.
 
As unfortunate as it is, there is no such thing as an "individual" in our political system. An as unfortuante, it is either Republican or Democrate. No matter what the individual runs for or on, once they get to Washington they become a member of the "party" and vote pure party lines - 99% at least. The only thing you vote for these days is the Republican platform or the Democrate platform ....
 
Facts

scotts74birds has the right attitude. This isn't doom and gloom, end of the world, dogs and cats living together type stuff we got here. This isn't fundamental problems with the market; it's lack of sanity from certain fringe members of a political party. Threatening a voluntary default instead of solving the problem, causing a downgrade in our credit rating, just got get some lame political agenda pushed? You gotta be f#$%$# kidding me. But, then again, I don't come to car forums for political discussions, so I guess I'll stop now.

What about the back to 2006 or the 800+ days before the people in office now that the (to use your type words) non-fringe "democratic party majority" was in "total control of the, white house senate & house all 3 branches of govt." & spent us into this crap even in the Bush era.. 3/4 freaken wars & muliple other U.S. aid situations that we don't need to fund totally on our own (mostly anyway), then police the rest of the world for a defunked U.N. that can't crap with out spending a ton on U.S. tax payers funds to do it... It not the Tea Parties fault we got downgraded it was the inability of our 2 parties to function like they are suppose to & represent their constituents not their pocket books, bank account or re-election funds, traveling all over the U.S. spending a **** load of tax payers funds to get re-elected, especially the Sitting President who ever it is, while in office the tons & tons of money it cost for the secret service & security before he gets there & while hes there, it's in the Multi-millions ever time he goes on 1 of these re-election tours, or even leave the white house for a date or vacation (think about it 1000's on the military & govt. payroll & all the equipment that they use with decoys & limo's & the rest) ... What I'm saying is don't just put the blame on one piece of the puzzle look at all of it, we can't continue to have the govt. spending our way out of this, especially with a bunch of social programs trying to redistribute the wealth to the lazy, the current leadership has proven that fact.. Sorry I hear a lot of them blame being put on the Tea Party they aren't in office they are people that are fed up & elected a number of politicians to get the govt. under control they aren't an elected party they are on the outside looking in, it's still the memebers of congress & the white house that cause ed this problem not the so called fringe of the republican party, what did the president offer "nothing but higher taxes & trillions more spending" it's historic amounts, that's why we were down graded by 1 of the worlds credit reporting bodies, not because of the so called fringe party... The President threatening to blanket or line item vetoing everything offered & the Senate with some fringe stupid procedural rules implemented by Harry Reid "never bringing anything to the table to even be able to vote on many options offered" for either party, was the big stumbling block it seems this last time around, not the House & their majority... "Just my take on reality" I'm sorry for the rant, I know the market is up & down like a yo yo, but just stay in for the long haul & it will usually come right back, it has in the past... Remember to buy low & sell high...LOL...
 
What about the back to 2006 or the 800+ days before the people in office now that the (to use your type words) non-fringe "democratic party majority" was in "total control of the, white house senate & house all 3 branches of govt." & spent us into this crap even in the Bush era.. 3/4 freaken wars & muliple other U.S. aid situations that we don't need to fund totally on our own (mostly anyway), then police the rest of the world for a defunked U.N. that can't crap with out spending a ton on U.S. tax payers funds to do it... It not the Tea Parties fault we got downgraded it was the inability of our 2 parties to function like they are suppose to & represent their constituents not their pocket books, bank account or re-election funds, traveling all over the U.S. spending a **** load of tax payers funds to get re-elected, especially the Sitting President who ever it is, while in office the tons & tons of money it cost for the secret service & security before he gets there & while hes there, it's in the Multi-millions ever time he goes on 1 of these re-election tours, or even leave the white house for a date or vacation (think about it 1000's on the military & govt. payroll & all the equipment that they use with decoys & limo's & the rest) ... What I'm saying is don't just put the blame on one piece of the puzzle look at all of it, we can't continue to have the govt. spending our way out of this, especially with a bunch of social programs trying to redistribute the wealth to the lazy, the current leadership has proven that fact.. Sorry I hear a lot of them blame being put on the Tea Party they aren't in office they are people that are fed up & elected a number of politicians to get the govt. under control they aren't an elected party they are on the outside looking in, it's still the memebers of congress & the white house that cause ed this problem not the so called fringe of the republican party, what did the president offer "nothing but higher taxes & trillions more spending" it's historic amounts, that's why we were down graded by 1 of the worlds credit reporting bodies, not because of the so called fringe party... The President threatening to blanket or line item vetoing everything offered & the Senate with some fringe stupid procedural rules implemented by Harry Reid "never bringing anything to the table to even be able to vote on many options offered" for either party, was the big stumbling block it seems this last time around, not the House & their majority... "Just my take on reality" I'm sorry for the rant, I know the market is up & down like a yo yo, but just stay in for the long haul & it will usually come right back, it has in the past... Remember to buy low & sell high...LOL...

I never said the Democrats weren't on the fringe. In fact, I don't see any party right now that ISN'T on the fringe of reality. There is no such thing as governing from the center any more, only appease the base. Furthermore, lets not let this devolve into a party squabble. This is exactly what has gotten us into this mess. Both parties have good ideas, its time for leadership that can actually make people work together. When you have divided government, i.e. different parties in control at the same time, you don't have a choice but to work together. Brinksmanship and political games, on both sides (not just the President) is what caused the downgrade. To blame only the President is disingenuous at best, and a complete fabrication at worst. Both sides bear blame.

I don't mean to be insulting with regards to the Tea Party. I think the people who follow that movement genuinely want whats best for the country. But, do you really think that they are somehow an independent political group that ISN'T the fringe of their own party? I can promise you they aren't independent, any more than the Blue Dogs are independent from the DNC.

And, now I really am done. Let's talk about Mopars!
 
Demeaning

I never said the Democrats weren't on the fringe. In fact, I don't see any party right now that ISN'T on the fringe of reality. There is no such thing as governing from the center any more, only appease the base. Furthermore, lets not let this devolve into a party squabble. This is exactly what has gotten us into this mess. Both parties have good ideas, its time for leadership that can actually make people work together. When you have divided government, i.e. different parties in control at the same time, you don't have a choice but to work together. Brinksmanship and political games, on both sides (not just the President) is what caused the downgrade. To blame only the President is disingenuous at best, and a complete fabrication at worst. Both sides bear blame.

I don't mean to be insulting with regards to the Tea Party. I think the people who follow that movement genuinely want whats best for the country. But, do you really think that they are somehow an independent political group that ISN'T the fringe of their own party? I can promise you they aren't independent, any more than the Blue Dogs are independent from the DNC.

And, now I really am done. Let's talk about Mopars!

So do the Blue dogs "socialist liberals" & main stream media aren't they an independent fringe party of the democratic party in it's self ? , by the way, I'm not a Tea Party Member & I do agree with a lot of what they are saying, but defending this current president if your centerist, moderate, republican, democrat or even Tea Party member is just stupid !!! , he is a litigator & speach maker, not a good leader, look at his dismal track record... By the way I'm not a long time or die hard republican, I'm more a innocent AMERICAN bystander that votes regularly & watches all the news, not just the crap spewed by Fox or CNN or CNBC... In my opinion there hasn't been a reporter worth a grain of salt sense Walter Chronkite (spelling?), but defending this sitting President is a loosing proposal, even if your a die hard Democrat you should be ashamed of this guy if you are...... All right lets talk some Mopar Stuff, I'm currently working on #61 Mopar & my 12th RR how does that relate to the topic here, I don't know, but I'm willing to go there... Have a great day it's nice to debate with you...
 
The Blue Dogs aren't a independent wing of the Democrats, they are the fringe of the Democratic Party, which is my point. In all of my posts, I have criticized the President, certainly not defending him. I was only saying that he isn't the only one who carries blame.

This isn't about political party, its about what's right for America. I think we agree on most of the things we are talking about. The most important thing we have in common is that we are mad at the status quo and that we both want whats best for this nation.

With regards to the media, I totally agree with you. That's why I believe that its extremely important to get all the news you can, newspapers, tv, internet, etc. No source is completely right, but no source is completely wrong either.

12 Road Runners! Jeez... thats a lot of Birds, congrats. I'm happy to be working on my first good Mopar. Used to own an Intrepid but that hardly counts. Its been really nice debating with you too.

Zach
 
My beloved country

The Blue Dogs aren't a independent wing of the Democrats, they are the fringe of the Democratic Party, which is my point. In all of my posts, I have criticized the President, certainly not defending him. I was only saying that he isn't the only one who carries blame.

This isn't about political party, its about what's right for America. I think we agree on most of the things we are talking about. The most important thing we have in common is that we are mad at the status quo and that we both want whats best for this nation.

With regards to the media, I totally agree with you. That's why I believe that its extremely important to get all the news you can, newspapers, tv, internet, etc. No source is completely right, but no source is completely wrong either.

12 Road Runners! Jeez... thats a lot of Birds, congrats. I'm happy to be working on my first good Mopar. Used to own an Intrepid but that hardly counts. Its been really nice debating with you too.

Zach

I see your as pationate about turning the corner with the economy as I am, this is such a fine country to see her (The U.S.of A.) being degraded as much as shes been of late, really hurts me & it's almost at the point that it's, well it just hurts me, to see the fall of a once great strong, functioning country...... Yep I'm a die hard MoPaR guy kind of born & raised that way, I've had bunch of Chargers, RR's, Cuda's, Demon's, Duster's, Satellite's, Fury's, Polara's & multiple drag cars, sprint cars cars, with MoPaR power plants Hey I'm not putting you down for your beliefs, you have your opinion, I have mine, that's 1 of the great things about America you can speak your voice & not be jailed for it , well most of the time anyway...LOL...
 
Compromise hasn't been a part of this government since the 1780s, no doubt. I just did address the issue of talking out both sides of the mouth. I'm as mad as you, but the problem is that no one, outside of the members of the Tea Party that is, takes the Tea Party seriously. And that is for a reason: not even the Republicans want you guys to have any serious credibility. The Tea Party was started as an offshoot of the GOP, really the extreme right wing, to make moderately-right wing candidates appear centrist to help them get elected. Actually, its a very smart tactic. But the Tea Party really is nothing more than a vocal minority that is controlled by the same old leadership. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Do you really think that the Speaker of the House lost control of members of his own caucus? If you do, then I've got some lovely oceanfront property in the Phoenix area I'd like to show you. As a political staffer, I have more knowledge of government than your average freshman Congressman and I bet most of us here do too. Freshman members of Congress are about as useless as goose crap on a pump handle; they don't even know where the bathrooms are until their second or third term. To say that they have any power in Washington is laughable at best.

I don't disagree with the sentiments of the Tea Party (less spending, less debt), but picket signs and irrelevant rallies won't do the trick. You need to work to build true consensus, especially with those who you don't agree with, to move this nation forward. Stop the yelling, the pointless angry tactics, and focus on real, meaningful policies. Continuing to polarize this nation with irrational action and thought is like masturbation: kinda fun while you're doing it but in the end you're only f^$#$% yourself.

Oh, about the 2000 page bills: Government is complicated, it requires a lot of writing to make things happen. I've read huge budget bills in my line of work and I understand them, have to 'cause its my job. The problem isn't how complicated or large the bills are; its that the legislators get a free pass on reading them before voting on them. If they read them, no one would have an argument about the length. Bills can't be dumbed down for the average Congress-critter, or citizen for that matter, to read them in 5 minutes. My job is to read the bills and understand them; maybe the legislators should read them too.

Zdillinger,

You got that all wrong. Have you ever been to a Tea Party Rally? The Tea Party is not a right wing offshoot of the GOP. The Tea Party are Constitutionalist stand on their principal and who want to build a constituency for the greater good for the country, not the lesser of two evils like what we’ve been getting out of Washington.
The Tea Party are Americans who want this government to follow the Constitution.
They want the government out of their lives.
They want the government to stop spending our tax dollars like it was there own personal slush fund. And yes SOME Republicans don't like this because they don't want to be held accountable either.
They want Term Limits for all politicians.
The Tea Party is sick and tired of back room deals. Isn't legislation supposed to be done out in the open on the floors of the house and senate?
They want English to be the official language of the USA… Did you know it’s not?
They want the borders sealed
They want Christmas and Easter back. Not winter and spring holidays.
They want the government to work for the people not campaign doners and lobbyist.
They want young healthy people to get off the system. Get to work!
They are small business owners who can’t stand the weight of all the government regulations and taxes. Have you tried to build a commercial building lately?
They are tired of buying oil off of countries that hate us when there is plenty of oil in this country and Canada.
They are tired of barrowing money off of Communist China.
They are tired of the government telling us what kind of cars to buy.

If you believe in any of these then you are probably a Tea Partier and didn’t know it.

They are people who were mad as hell when the found out that a communist (Van Jones) were walking the halls of the White House advising the President on environmental jobs.(what the hell is that all about). They were mad as hell when the President implemented the Czars 30 of them I think was the total number. Who implement regulation policy with out legislation? Some of these Czars are like Cass Sunsteine (read Cass Sunstiens words about Taxation, Free Speech, Legal philosophy, animal rights, etc etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein#Views ) and tell me if you feel warm and fuzzy. They were mad as hell when there was a picture of the White House Christmas Tree and what was hanging on it? A orniment with a picture of mao tse tung…. A picture of mao tse tung in our White House.
The Tea Party is sick and tired of back room deals. Isn't legislation supposed to be done out in the open on the floors of the house and senate?

How is it ok for Unions to picket state capitals, or Acorn to picket banks and gays to picket what ever they picket and yet if the Tea Party pickets and we’re a joke, we are called racist, terrorist, violent, and angry? We’re not the angry ones (fed up yes but not angry) You want anger look at the demagoging Liberals. Show me one case where a Tea Partier is ranting with anger?

If the Tea Party is so irrelevant … how did they impact the last election?

The Tea Party are Americans who are reminding our politicians who they work for.

Your comment about freshmen congressmen is the exact reason for term limits. I am sick and tired of hearing about how Washington works… obviously it isn’t working and hasn’t for years. That’s why were in this mess.
How is it ok for someone like Ted Kennedy to be in the Senate from 1962 before his brother got shot until he died a two years ago. That goes for both sides of the isle. Strom Thurmond was in the Senate from 1954 until 2003. That is just insane

Your comment about dumming down legislation. First off I’m wondering if I should be insulted by that comment. Secondly there is no freaking way legislation should be this complicated. I’m not saying that it should be done on one page but when the old Speaker of the House said about the health care bill “ we have to pass the bill so we can see what’s in it” is completely insane! The problem is there are wayyy too many lawyers in Washington. 200 years ago our politicians were businessmen and farmers, now they are all lawyers. There is something wrong with this.

As for some of the comments about Fox News on this thread, Fox news is the only channel that brings these things to light. They are the only ones talking about these issues. If it were not for Fox News we wouldn’t be hearing about the crap that was in the health care bill, the debt issue, the pork barrel spending, the attacks on Christianity, we would have not heard about Acorn and the voter fraud. I could go on. The fact of the matter is I would trust Fox before I trusted any other media. Can anyone tell me where they’re off the mark?
 
Time to get rid of these career politicians and get back to the gold standard...Ron Paul in 2012 is all I can say. The Fed, with the printing presses running in OT, isn't cutting it anymore. They've penalized those that have saved money over the years by providing near zeo on interest rates while rewarding Wall St with bail-outs so they can spend 10k a night on hookers (google it!). Neither of the two main parties has much to say about a private bank running the show with no oversight, which is in direct violation of the constitution!

PS Ron Paul is the father of the Tea Patry movement, period.
 
KDBelvedere1:

I meant no insult to anyone with the "dumbing down legislation" line. The phrase just meant that legislation is, by its very nature, complicated and can't be otherwise. Could they be shorter, perhaps. Second, of the 55 delegates that attended the Constitutional Convention, 34 were lawyers, so they weren't all "businessmen and farmers". I agree that Nancy Pelosi was a terrible Speaker. Just another example of parties leading from the wings, rather than having true centrist leadership.

Of course its ok for anyone to hold a rally. Nothing wrong with that. My point is that they are ineffective for doing anything other than making the participants feel good. This goes for union rallies, Tea Party rallies, etc. The only way to make change is to take positive political action. This means knocking on doors, talking to your neighbors and getting petitions signed, not preaching to the choir, like a rally.

I'm not arguing against most of what the Tea Party stands for. I'm arguing against how they are organized, how they were founded and that they consider their actions to be fruitful. As for last years election, the party in power nearly always loses seats in the mid-term elections. The true test of the Tea Party as a political movement will be the 2012 elections. If the Tea Party caucus gains seats, I will happily admit I was wrong about their effectiveness, but right now I just don't see it.

I'm on the fence about term limits, haven't decided either way. I see their value, but at the same time I get a little miffed because MY vote and the vote of my fellow citizens should be the term limit. If someone is doing a good job, they should be able to continue in office. If not, vote them out. To me, the real problem isn't term limits, but its the money in politics. When a politician is more concerned with getting elected, which means raising money from anyone who will give it, it causes the situation we are in.

We certainly disagree on some things, but mostly we want the same things. We want to be able to succeed, have our families, run our lives without looking over our shoulders and be able to afford the things we want and need. The question is how to make the government do the things that will make this possible.

Zach
 
I see your as pationate about turning the corner with the economy as I am, this is such a fine country to see her (The U.S.of A.) being degraded as much as shes been of late, really hurts me & it's almost at the point that it's, well it just hurts me, to see the fall of a once great strong, functioning country...... Yep I'm a die hard MoPaR guy kind of born & raised that way, I've had bunch of Chargers, RR's, Cuda's, Demon's, Duster's, Satellite's, Fury's, Polara's & multiple drag cars, sprint cars cars, with MoPaR power plants Hey I'm not putting you down for your beliefs, you have your opinion, I have mine, that's 1 of the great things about America you can speak your voice & not be jailed for it , well most of the time anyway...LOL...

Absolutely. Freedom to disagree is the most powerful, and underused, part of Freedom of Speech. I wish more people could just agree to disagree instead of having pointless political arguments. Don't they know that is why we have Congress? Ha!

It was really nice talking to you, hope you have a great weekend.

Zach
 
Zdillenger for Prez!!!!!

Well, I'm flattered, but I'd never get elected for anything, not even dog catcher, because I won't play the political games that higher office requires. Individual people might like what I have to say, but the people with the money (big business, unions, etc.) tend to expect you to follow their ideology to the letter and don't let you have any leeway. Without the money, you've got no shot. Its horsecrap, but what can you do?

Thanks again for the compliment!

Zach
 
but I'd never get elected for anything, not even dog catcher, because I won't play the political games that higher office requires.

Zach

That sir, is exactly what might get you elected from the tea party. See, we are sick to death of the necessarily complicated legislation. You are wrong, it does NOT have to be complicated.
Try this one...."Thou shalt not kill". Real simple, and not complicated. OK, let's try another, "It shall no longer be illegal to sell insurance across state lines". I guess that's a little more complicated (not really), but would save us all millions and maybe even trillions of dollars in health care costs.

How about this one..." No lawsuit shall be awarded an any amount greater than the current death benefit awarded to the family of a fallen serviceman".
This would be my favorite, as nothing is more sacred in this country than the life of one who has given all they have. No more multi million dollar awards.
It can be simple, and the fact that you think it HAS to be complicated and have worked there for so long shows that the system is corrupt. Laws don't need to be complicated, in fact, the more complicated, the less effective they are, because no one understands them and the big entities can get away with not following them.
No, we are the dupes. We let the senate get away with NOT passing a budget and we say nothing. It is their sworn duty to do so. WE do not hold them accountable.
Center my butt, we need to get back closer to the constitution and quit coddling the electorate who want something for nothing. This country is a place where you are allowed to succeed, but you also must be allowed to fail. Don't like those rules, then there are all kinds of countries that will take you in. OOOps, Maybe not. Don't try mexico, their immigration laws put our laws to shame, Yet Calderon comes here and lectures us, and the DEMS give that MFer a standing ovation? SHAME. What have we let our country become? A door mat for the world?
No, the tea party is just astroturf, nothing to worry about. OOps wrong again, I guess they are terrorists who held the country hostage. So, which is it? nothing.... or holding all the power? This country is center right and always has been. People like to have programs for the poor because it DOES make everyone feel better. But, the government does a lousy job administering them. Why, Because they are COMPLICATED!!! Make them simple and easy to audit. That would make people giving their money (taxpayers) feel better. Otherwise, people choose to give to charity. Just like Obama's favorite guy Buffet or Gates. If you haven't noticed those guys haven't given their billions over to the government and won't. But will give it to a charity. BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT IT WASTED.
Government IS the problem, we are in a replay of the late 70's and we need another LEADER like Reagan. Love him or hate him, there is no denying that he pulled the country together and led us to better prosperity.
 
I always thought a Blue Dog Democrat was more of a moderate form of a liberal?? Aren't they the ones that believe in fiscal responsibility and dicipline but still follow the liberal social agenda?
Obviously I don't know my "liberaleze" very well...... :)
 
That's kind of what I thought, they are more the centurists than fringes of the democrat party. What I would define as the true fringe of the Democratic party are the socialists - or further to the left, the Marxists.
 
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