Maximum Performance N/A 383 build. Input wanted from engine gurus.

[67charger383]

For the engine gurus:

My current project to build a maximum performance B block 383 with the goal of using a stock block. Money isn't really an object but I want to keep it to mostly not one off parts.

Engine Specs:

0 deck 30 over 383 block
forged rods and crank
TRW L2293 Dome Pistons
Super Damper
Fully race prepped 452 heads with near max wedge size intake ports
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Mechanical Roller Cam
Lunati Mech Roller Lifters
Milodon Gear Drive
Milodon External Oil System
Fabbed aluminum oil pan with a crank scraper
Ported Weiand 2x4 Tunnel Ram
2x Holley 750 Double pumpers
Hooker Super Comp Headers
Accel BEI II Ignition



Car Specs:

67 Charger body
4000lbs with driver
Fully built 727 (kevlar clutches, RMVB, deep pan)
Turbo Action 5000 stall converter
8-3/4 Sure Grip with 4.11 Yukon gears
28' Tall tire


Yes I know it is a heavy car with small cubes. The goal is to go the fastest with an all steel 67 charger body with an Iron 383 block and stock stroke N/A.

Well anyways, I called up a few cam companies today to spec a custom grind mech roller, and they all told me to make the heavy car with small cubes combo work I would need to be turning 7500-8000rpm. I was then told that I really should get Trickflow 240 heads, H beam rods, and more modern lighter dome pistons. They told me that the TRWs are too heavy to run that type of RPM, Is that true? I know alot of SS guys ran them back in the day... I was also told that I could make the combo of Iron heads and TRWs work if they flowed around 290-300cfm. The cam specs I heard from multiple sources were: 280/280@50 680 Lift 110 LSA

So I have a few questions for any engine gurus here:

Can I turn 7500+ Rpms with the TRW Slugs? I already have the full rotating assembly balanced and blueprinted.
If so can I run them with TF 240 heads, or would there be piston-valve clearance issues?
Is it possible that the worked iron heads flow around the 280-300cfm range? I have big $$$ into them but for the price of getting them on a flow bench it wouldn't be worth it. I was quoted $500 to flow test them.
I will most likely go for the TF 240 heads.
Any recommendations for a modern lighter dome piston that would put the compression at roughly 13-1?

What needs to be done to prep the block to handle these high RPMs?

Can forged stock rods and stock hardware handle 7500? or am I stuck with having to get H beams and full ARP hardware?

I would appreciate any input or further recommendations.

 

[67charger383]

I am targeting 600hp.

 

[4speed68rt]

Probably a smaller cam for low end and keep it below 6000 rpm. Making a 383 do that will be a challenge. If you get it to turn that much with stock rods and heavy pistons, it might not last long. Why not just get one of those low deck stroker kits?

 

[Curiousyellow71]

If we are talking max effort here...
An example would be to a engine built for NHRA super stock w smaller cubic inches.. I would typically expect to see a much narrow Lsa cam and a split duration. A cam example would be 284/[email protected] with a 104 LSA..and as much lift as you can afford. 4.10s would not be near deep enough!

We still run that old trw style dome piston, but in a 440..spin it to 7000, At one time for a couple races the car was running 6.17s gears and going through the traps at 7400 w LY rods. It was ridiculous but it held together. In the 1/8 w 4.88s my brother decided the car maybe could be left in second..until we checked the tach memory and it said 8800. Sure lighter pistons are better, heavy parts will not have as much longevity.

You can figure out your 383 piston speed compare it to a 440 piston speed. Wallace racing is a good site.

 

[67charger383]

If we are talking max effort here...
An example would be to a engine built for NHRA super stock w smaller cubic inches.. I would typically expect to see a much narrow Lsa cam and a split duration. A cam example would be 284/[email protected] with a 104 LSA..and as much lift as you can afford. 4.10s would not be near deep enough!

We still run that old trw style dome piston, but in a 440..spin it to 7000, At one time for a couple races the car was running 6.17s gears and going through the traps at 7400 w LY rods. It was ridiculous but it held together. In the 1/8 w 4.88s my brother decided the car maybe could be left in second..until we checked the tach memory and it said 8800. Sure lighter pistons are better, heavy parts will not have as much longevity.

You can figure out your 383 piston speed compare it to a 440 piston speed. Wallace racing is a good site.

I've heard conflicting info on the gear ratio. A number of people have told me to go for way taller gears, and a number of people have told me I am just fine with 4.11s because of the 28' tire.

I plan on 1/4 racing.

I really don't know tho so what would you say for a ratio?

I came to the conclusion of 4.11s a few years back based on internet calculators.

 

[67charger383]

If we are talking max effort here...
An example would be to a engine built for NHRA super stock w smaller cubic inches.. I would typically expect to see a much narrow Lsa cam and a split duration. A cam example would be 284/[email protected] with a 104 LSA..and as much lift as you can afford. 4.10s would not be near deep enough!

We still run that old trw style dome piston, but in a 440..spin it to 7000, At one time for a couple races the car was running 6.17s gears and going through the traps at 7400 w LY rods. It was ridiculous but it held together. In the 1/8 w 4.88s my brother decided the car maybe could be left in second..until we checked the tach memory and it said 8800. Sure lighter pistons are better, heavy parts will not have as much longevity.

You can figure out your 383 piston speed compare it to a 440 piston speed. Wallace racing is a good site.

What heads are you running? If I can get around that performance with the worked iron heads I have I'd be happy.

but I will probably end up spending the money on better heads at some point

 

[Curiousyellow71]

What heads are you running? If I can get around that performance with the worked iron heads I have I'd be happy.

but I will probably end up spending the money on better heads at some point

We have had iron and aluminum heads. We have a flow bench, home ported. Most our iron heads are around 300 cfm, they perform better at the lower lifts then ported stealth or edelbrocks but don't keep up on the higher lift numbers. Our best iron heads are old direct connection Stage IV iron heads 325cfm. When the 440 was running 7400 through the traps it had hogged out 906s..those were not flowed but had 2.14/1.81s. We run aluminum mp stage VIs on it now.
The 28s help but on a heavy car my thought would be there is more to be gained in the 60' w a lower gear and wind the crap out of it out of the traps. If this is a Turbo action J convertor ours isn't very effecient and slips adding to another 10% of rpms roughly out the end.

 

[RemCharger]

There's lots to talk about in this sliver of information. I've run a non optimized 383 trw slug mill into the 10.50s at 130.. they are a time bomb, but I've learned what dangers to mitigate. The key to longevity is a wrist pin bushing.
Like it's high RPM brothers the 426 and the 340

 

[67charger383]

We have had iron and aluminum heads. We have a flow bench, home ported. Most our iron heads are around 300 cfm, they perform better at the lower lifts then ported stealth or edelbrocks but don't keep up on the higher lift numbers. Our best iron heads are Stage IV iron heads 325cfm. When the 440 was running 7400 through the traps it had hogged out 906s..those were not flowed but had 2.14/1.81s. We run mp stage VIs on it now.
The 28s help but on a heavy car my thought would be there more to be gained in the 60" w a lower gear and wind the crap out of it out of the traps. If this is a Turbo action J convertor ours isn't very effecient and slips adding to another 10% of rpms roughly out the end.

Thanks for the input. I have both a set of hogged out 452s and a set of stock Stage IV's.
I'm very tempted to run the 452's because whoever ported them actually welded in new material around the intake ports to get them near max wedge size, and they look really nice as far as porting work.

I just had no idea what numbers these would flow and don't really want to spend all that money on having them flowed at a machine shop, but this clears it up a bit and gives me hope for using them.


I don't mean to pick your brain too much, but what cam/cams have you run on that motor?

I was initially planning on finding and running an old DC .654 Mini Express cam, but I couldn't seem to locate one and that set me on this whole custom roller cam fiasco trying to deal with cam manufactures who don't want anything to do with a older style build like this

 

[RemCharger]

You can pour as much money as you want into a 4000lb 383 car as you want, but set a et goal first.

 

[67charger383]

You can pour as much money as you want into a 4000lb 383 car as you want, but set a et goal first.

If i could run bottom 10s on nitrous and 11s N/A i'd be thrilled.

I probably won't be class racing with this, No cage.

This will be much more of a noprep/street racing deal.

I'm really just trying to build what I like, I know theres much better setups to go racing, I have a backhalfed 440 ebody

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Ran 2 different roller cams in our first race 440
272/[email protected] .620/.620 @109

278/[email protected] on 111 .685/.685

We have quite a few other roller cams ranging from 241/[email protected] .6/.6 (trick flow) to our biggest is 284/[email protected] on 104.

It takes a lot of grinding to get stage IVs to 325cfm..but there is considerable thickness to get it done.

 

[RemCharger]

To make a good fancy 383 you need long rods imo to extend rpm range. The first one I had was an indy-1 motor, next was a super hogged 426 mw head. About the same power, peaked at around 600hp in my estimation. At that point you need a more efficient bottom end

 

[67charger383]

Ran 2 different roller cams in our firsr race 440
272/[email protected] .620/.620 @109

278/[email protected] on 111 .685/.685

We have quite a few other roller cams ranging from 241/[email protected] .6/.6 (trick flow) to our biggest is 284/[email protected] on 104.

You wouldn't happen to have any older cams collecting dust you'd be interested in selling, would you?

worth a try

 

[Curiousyellow71]

You wouldn't happen to have any older cams collecting dust you'd be interested in selling, would you?

worth a try

I think we likely have homes for everything..Lol
But I can look!
I would take RemChargers advice on this one most of us have not gone fast w a 383!

 

[RemCharger]

I built a 600 horse trick flow 440 for my buddy.stock 4000 w#driver. Hope he brings it to the track

 

[RemCharger]

I think we likely have homes for everything..Lol
But I can look!
I would take RemChargers advice on this one most of us have not gone fast w a 383!

I don't know much. But I've learned about wringing these little pieces of **** out
Have you ground valve reliefs out exactly to the top of the ring land?? Fun.

 

[Geoff 2]

Long rods in the 383. It already has long rods [ comparatively speaking ] with a 1.88 rod/stroke ratio..............the highest of all the popular big block engines.

 

[RemCharger]

They need more dwell time at rpm

 

[Geoff 2]

RemCharger,

Post #8. You ran 10.5 @ 130? Very impressive. Normally aspirated? Car weight?