The first "Hawk-Rod" resurrection, Roadkill style

[HawkRod]

Finally, some progress!

Due to weather, work and some other reasons, my time in the garage has been a bit limited. However, I was finally able to get the transmission out of the car last night!

My problem stemmed from the fact that I could not remove my torsion bars - something I have done on numerous occasions previously. The problem turned out to be that even with the adjusting screws turned all the way out, I had to have someone pry down on the control arm pivot point* while I was hammering the torsion bar backwards. This worked and the bars came loose.
(* I have no idea if control arm pivot point is the correct term. What I mean is the part that the adjusting screw pushes up on when installed. When you loosen the screw, the pressure on the torsion bars is released. However, in my case, it wasn't fully released, so we had to pry that pivot point downwards further. Hopefully that makes sense.)

Once the bars were out, it was quick work to get the cross bar out and the transmission down.

Here is (finally) the empty back of the engine! Everything looked dry and OK with respect to the rear main seal and plugs in this area. Whew!

Now I will finish up going through the valve body and verifying that everything with that is OK. This will be documented on my transmission thread and then I will re-install and test the tranny.

Hopefully all this work will result in a great working and reliable transmission!

 

[zyzzyx]

Wow, is that alot of mass missing from the one side of that flex-plate! Although I see that there's
a piece missing exactly opposite which would cancel some of it out. Who's flex-plate is that anyway?

 

[HawkRod]

Wow, is that alot of mass missing from the one side of that flex-plate! Although I see that there's
a piece missing exactly opposite which would cancel some of it out. Who's flex-plate is that anyway?

It is a B&M externally balanced SFI spec flex plate. But it is not stock. My 416 stroker engine wouldn't balance well with either a neutrally balanced flex plate or an external balance flex plate. The external balanced flex plate was best, but I needed to add weight (read Mallory metal which equals time consuming and expensive) OR grind off some of the flex plate until I achieved a neutral balance. Guess which I chose?!?

 

[zyzzyx]

I used to balance 150 ton turbine rotors at work and when they closed my shop I gave a hunk
of it to my Grandson! You can use sintered metal also, but not everyone knows about it. The only
reason that I mentioned it is because at higher rpm's, the force on that rear main can really start to
climb. The crank should really be balanced within the bearings. What you actually did was balance
the rotating assembly "Overhung". I'm just thinking out loud. I'm not a pro engine builder, so I
don't actually know what you can get away with! Sounds like you're coming along nicely for being
in the dead of winter though!

 

[HawkRod]

The crank should really be balanced within the bearings. What you actually did was balance the rotating assembly "Overhung".

If the crank is balanced "within the bearings", it is an internally balanced engine.
If the engine is balanced "overhung", then it is an externally balanced engine. Later 340s were externally balanced, as were 440 Six Pack engines, as a couple of examples. So lots of engines are balanced externally. It is a common practice, especially with cast crank engines.

Having an engine internally balanced is, in my opinion, better because then the damper and flex plate/ torque converter (or fly wheel for a manual) can all easily be interchanged with any neutrally balanced part.

In my case, I made myself a custom weighted flex plate when I balanced my reciprocating assembly. This means I can never switch it out for any other flex plate. If it broke, I would need to trace it and custom grind the replacement to keep the balance on the engine. Not as ideal as having the engine internally balanced, but much more economical in both time and money from a balancing perspective.

The only reason that I mentioned it is because at higher rpm's, the force on that rear main can really start to climb.

I don't believe this is accurate.
While the flex plate (and damper) are not neutrally balanced by themselves, the entire reciprocating assembly is balanced, and that includes the damper and flex plate. So as RPM increases, any force on the rear main seal that is generated by the flex plate is cancelled out by offsetting weight inside the engine (e.g. the crank and/or weight of the rods/pistons).

 

[HawkRod]

I have now finished my new transmission, and it is time to install it in the car. Hopefully I can do this in the next couple of days.

I certainly hope all this work is worth it and that I didn't screw anything up. We shall see!

 

[64fury74charger]

This is another really informative thread that helps take some of the “mysteries “ out of doing major work on our timeless machines. Thank you for taking the extra time and effort to allow us to follow along as you work out all the steps and information that are needed to do it right and really know what you are running on when your out there making people smile.

 

[zyzzyx]

Yes, It looks sweet! It'll be nice going down the road and "Flipping" the switch!
You're doing it right for another long distance trip. By the time you swing by, this
Covid stuff should be in the rear view mirror!

 

[HawkRod]

This is another really informative thread that helps take some of the “mysteries “ out of doing major work on our timeless machines. Thank you for taking the extra time and effort to allow us to follow along as you work out all the steps and information that are needed to do it right and really know what you are running on when your out there making people smile.

Thanks for the kind words. I have learned so much from many here on FBBO, so I figure I'll document my work here. Hopefully this helps others, even if I screw stuff up!!!

Yes, It looks sweet! It'll be nice going down the road and "Flipping" the switch!
You're doing it right for another long distance trip. By the time you swing by, this
Covid stuff should be in the rear view mirror!

I'm looking forward to both the trip and to Covid stuff in the rear view mirror! The Gear Vendor's overdrive gives the best of both worlds, both some good acceleration and better highway manners to boot.

 

[64fury74charger]

Thanks for the kind words. I have learned so much from many here on FBBO, so I figure I'll document my work here. Hopefully this helps others, even if I screw stuff up!!!


I'm looking forward to both the trip and to Covid stuff in the rear view mirror! The Gear Vendor's overdrive gives the best of both worlds, both some good acceleration and better highway manners to boot.

I would like to know more about the Gear Vendors and how it shifts. I am seriously considering putting one in my Charger just to get the rpm’s down at cruising speed. Seems like a relatively straightforward install and should drop about 20% off on the freeway. Not concerned about mileage just lowering rpm’s.
I have already installed the Sniper efi and that’s been sweet so far.

 

[HawkRod]

I would like to know more about the Gear Vendors and how it shifts. I am seriously considering putting one in my Charger just to get the rpm’s down at cruising speed. Seems like a relatively straightforward install and should drop about 20% off on the freeway. Not concerned about mileage just lowering rpm’s.
I have already installed the Sniper efi and that’s been sweet so far.

When the GV shifts, it shifts with purpose. There is no slop and no delay. When it moves between the two gears, it does so immediately. This is great when you are putting your foot in it, less so when you are coasting off the highway and getting out of O/D. I think the stock unit handles over 1000 HP, so it is stout.
The control module allows for automatic shifting in and out of O/D at around 47 MPH. In this mode, you just drive it and enjoy the car. I have used this a lot so far.
You can also control the O/D manually, and shift each gear in and out of O/D. In other words, 1, 1 O/D, 2, 2 O/D, 3 and 3 O/D. So it is like having 6 gears. But 1 O/D is useless, so forget that. But you can reasonably use O/D on 2nd and 3rd gear. I'll say it takes some skill and practice to get the timing just right on a drag race. I haven't drag raced it yet, but just playing around the timing takes some practice to get it right.

Overall, I am happy with the Gear Vendor's. It works well.

 

[64fury74charger]

When the GV shifts, it shifts with purpose. There is no slop and no delay. When it moves between the two gears, it does so immediately. This is great when you are putting your foot in it, less so when you are coasting off the highway and getting out of O/D. I think the stock unit handles over 1000 HP, so it is stout.
The control module allows for automatic shifting in and out of O/D at around 47 MPH. In this mode, you just drive it and enjoy the car. I have used this a lot so far.
You can also control the O/D manually, and shift each gear in and out of O/D. In other words, 1, 1 O/D, 2, 2 O/D, 3 and 3 O/D. So it is like having 6 gears. But 1 O/D is useless, so forget that. But you can reasonably use O/D on 2nd and 3rd gear. I'll say it takes some skill and practice to get the timing just right on a drag race. I haven't drag raced it yet, but just playing around the timing takes some practice to get it right.

Overall, I am happy with the Gear Vendor's. It works well.

That sounds really good and solid. My 727 is recently gone through and has a crisp shift kit. Running 3:55 gears and 255/70/15 on all 4 corners so my rpm’s are around 2600 at 60ish. Gear vendor seems easier than swapping out an entire transmission and the price is reasonable. Thanks for your help.

 

[Cranky]

I would like to know more about the Gear Vendors and how it shifts. I am seriously considering putting one in my Charger just to get the rpm’s down at cruising speed. Seems like a relatively straightforward install and should drop about 20% off on the freeway. Not concerned about mileage just lowering rpm’s.
I have already installed the Sniper efi and that’s been sweet so far.

The latest issue of Hot Rod has a pretty good article on the GV unit.....

 

[HawkRod]

I had some time Monday to install the transmission. The problem was, I was alone so I had to do things slowly and carefully - no extra hands to help in case I got in trouble!

The transmission is really tail heavy with the O/D, so I had to lift it carefully with a hoist to get it on my transmission jack.

Once I got it set on the transmission jack, I carefully chained it up so it wouldn't move. I was still very uncomfortable about so much weight on the tail. I felt like the whole rig could tip. But I tested it a bit while the hoist was still hooked up and it seemed good enough.

I then pre-filled the torque converter with fluid.

I then inserted the torque converter into the transmission. You should hear 3 distinct "clunks" as the 3 key elements are engaged: Input shaft, stator and pump (not necessarily in that order - I forget the order.)
On my setup, the torque converter attachment lugs should be at least 1/2" below the mounting surface of the bellhousing.

Here is the whole contraption going up into the car. The picture below has a good view of about where the torque converter should sit when fully inserted.

Once it was up there, it was simply a matter of re-installing bolts, transmission cross member, etc. No pictures of this as it is pretty boring, standard stuff.

One issue I had was that when doing the final installation of the transmission, the torque converter must have slipped forward a little. I didn't notice this and when I went to bolt the torque converter to the flex plate it would not turn on its own - it was binding against the flex plate. Yikes! I had to loosen the bellhousing bolts, slip the transmission backwards and then slip the converter back in. Hopefully nothing got damaged with that hiccup.

So now everything is back in place. I need to fill fluid and do a couple of minor, final checks and I am ready to start the car and check the operation of the transmission. Only problem it is currently 14 degrees F this morning; not sure how "gung-ho" I am to work when it is that cold!

 

[Cranky]

@HawkRod How much does the GV unit weigh? The HR article may have listed it but these days I'm dealing with Oldtimers.....anyways, I saw a show where Freiburger lifted the GV unit and installed it when the transmission was already in the car.

 

[HawkRod]

@HawkRod How much does the GV unit weigh? The HR article may have listed it but these days I'm dealing with Oldtimers.....anyways, I saw a show where Freiburger lifted the GV unit and installed it when the transmission was already in the car.

I didn't weigh it. The GV site says it weighs 32 - 46 "depending on application hardware". So it's not that heavy, but when that ~40 pounds is hanging off the end of the long 727 tail shaft it made the transmission not very stable sitting on the pan!

 

[HawkRod]

I made a file so I can have a decal made. The RoadKill part is unchanged from their logo; I simply added the "Runner" so it would look somewhat similar. This will go on the back window, although the letters will be white so they show up better on the glass (and there will be no background color).

Trip is less than 2 1/2 months away. I need to get busy getting the rest of my punch list done!

 

[HawkRod]

OK, so first bit of news is we have a confirmed start date for the car trip: May 2nd, 2022. I'll start a separate trip thread at the end of the month to start talking details about the trip.

But crap, now I really am (once again) running out of time to get this car ready!

The darn Impala SS is still on my lift, but I did at least start my carb swap. I had an Edelbrock 600 CFM carb on the car, but for a 416 CI stroker, that is way too little carb.
So I dug into my parts bin and found a Carter Thermoquad from a 400. I think they flow like 800 CFM (maybe 850?). The main thing I like about them are the small primaries and large secondaries. This will hopefully get me the power I need when I want it, but also a little better mileage when driving across country.

Here is the carb on the car. I still need to look up and confirm what the bowl vent (??) connects to. (In this picture, it is right below the red coil.)

I was also happy that I had a proper divorced choke for it, and damned if it didn't all fit right off the bat!
Note that my hose hook up is temporary - I don't want to spend too much time dressing up the carb and wiring if the darn thing has a problem and I need to switch back.

I found this on my parts shelves. Now I do suck at tuning carbs, but I certainly can't blame lack of parts for tuning issues! Hopefully I can get this thing tuned well!

 

[64fury74charger]

Good to see your picking away at this again and have set a date for the trip. You’re going to be able to get it done before you know it and everything will fall in place.

 

[Nxcoupe]

OK, so first bit of news is we have a confirmed start date for the car trip: May 2nd, 2022. I'll start a separate trip thread at the end of the month to start talking details about the trip.

But crap, now I really am (once again) running out of time to get this car ready!

The darn Impala SS is still on my lift, but I did at least start my carb swap. I had an Edelbrock 600 CFM carb on the car, but for a 416 CI stroker, that is way too little carb.
So I dug into my parts bin and found a Carter Thermoquad from a 400. I think they flow like 800 CFM (maybe 850?). The main thing I like about them are the small primaries and large secondaries. This will hopefully get me the power I need when I want it, but also a little better mileage when driving across country.

Here is the carb on the car. I still need to look up and confirm what the bowl vent (??) connects to. (In this picture, it is right below the red coil.)
View attachment 1257496

I was also happy that I had a proper divorced choke for it, and damned if it didn't all fit right off the bat!
Note that my hose hook up is temporary - I don't want to spend too much time dressing up the carb and wiring if the darn thing has a problem and I need to switch back.
View attachment 1257497

I found this on my parts shelves. Now I do suck at tuning carbs, but I certainly can't blame lack of parts for tuning issues! Hopefully I can get this thing tuned well!
View attachment 1257498

If I remember correctly, and it's been about 30 years since I worked on these at the dealership, that vent went to the inlet breather on the valve cover. One valve cover has the pcv, the other has the inlet vent that attached to the air cleaner and it had another vent nipple coming out of that cap. One big for air cleaner and one small for evap vent. I could be wrong. It's been a long time.