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In the engine bay may make even more sense. I have to run wires through the firewall anyway.
Vintage Air installation in a 1968 Satellite
- Thread starter Kern Dog
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i like it.
Love Al Bundy so here's one more that shows how I'll feel when this is all done:
70ChargerRT
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It’s your guys call but if you’re going to run the heater hoses through the wheel well anyways why not just put the valve there also? I put mine exactly where the Vintage directions said to and ran that wire along with the AC compressor wire with the heater hoses and through the grommets in the firewall and then silicone the grommets as stated per directions.
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In keeping with the common theme of how the hip bone is connected to the arm bone (one thing affects other things),
The idea of putting the 4 port manifold on the fender apron behind the UCA mount could pose a problem.
This is because it is an unusual surface with several bends.
Putting the manifold close to the UCA mount:
This is the position that allows the manifold base to sit the closest to flat but it is so close to the suspension, I’m concerned about contact. Moving a little toward the firewall…It has a gap.
Right near the firewall was one area I thought would be great.
There is a small gap that may not be noticeable but…. It is right at a seam between the fender apron and a brace to the firewall. This is structural and must not be disturbed.
The only other place here is the only flat spot big enough but it is low and I don’t think it would look good.
Maybe this is why I haven’t seen anyone else try it?
In my opinion, this area seems great in theory but I don’t know if I can make it work. The manifold plate will have to bend to lay flat almost everywhere except down low which also makes for a jog in the lines to rest near the horizontal part of the apron.
Thinking back, I did see someone run their lines in this area using individual fittings, not a manifold.
I’m capable of figuring this out but I don’t like all these “variables “.
Do you want A or B?
I want to go with B.
Okay, with B, you have to do G and W but it won’t allow you to do ZZ.
What if I decide to use A?
Well, with A, you’ll need XYX and DCV and that works but you’ll need to do QRS.
The man at the hot rod shop I spoke with likes Vintage Air better than other kits but for exactly the same reason that I don’t… he likes the versatility of having a lot of options.
That is great if you’re building street rods that never came with A/C or even a heater. You have to come up with creative solutions to package it all in a car like that.
Ma Mopar built hundreds of thousands of 66-70 B body cars.
A customer shouldn’t have to reinvent the wheel to install an air conditioning system.
I could just default back to the way that VA does show the lines....
I think Dwayne is concern about access during alignments. Regarding the alignment cam bolts, the engine side has the nut and washer while the wheel side is where the cam bolt is turned to adjust caster and camber. This may just be the best way to go.
The idea of putting the 4 port manifold on the fender apron behind the UCA mount could pose a problem.
This is because it is an unusual surface with several bends.
Putting the manifold close to the UCA mount:
This is the position that allows the manifold base to sit the closest to flat but it is so close to the suspension, I’m concerned about contact. Moving a little toward the firewall…It has a gap.
Right near the firewall was one area I thought would be great.
There is a small gap that may not be noticeable but…. It is right at a seam between the fender apron and a brace to the firewall. This is structural and must not be disturbed.
The only other place here is the only flat spot big enough but it is low and I don’t think it would look good.
Maybe this is why I haven’t seen anyone else try it?
In my opinion, this area seems great in theory but I don’t know if I can make it work. The manifold plate will have to bend to lay flat almost everywhere except down low which also makes for a jog in the lines to rest near the horizontal part of the apron.
Thinking back, I did see someone run their lines in this area using individual fittings, not a manifold.
I’m capable of figuring this out but I don’t like all these “variables “.
Do you want A or B?
I want to go with B.
Okay, with B, you have to do G and W but it won’t allow you to do ZZ.
What if I decide to use A?
Well, with A, you’ll need XYX and DCV and that works but you’ll need to do QRS.
The man at the hot rod shop I spoke with likes Vintage Air better than other kits but for exactly the same reason that I don’t… he likes the versatility of having a lot of options.
That is great if you’re building street rods that never came with A/C or even a heater. You have to come up with creative solutions to package it all in a car like that.
Ma Mopar built hundreds of thousands of 66-70 B body cars.
A customer shouldn’t have to reinvent the wheel to install an air conditioning system.
I could just default back to the way that VA does show the lines....
I think Dwayne is concern about access during alignments. Regarding the alignment cam bolts, the engine side has the nut and washer while the wheel side is where the cam bolt is turned to adjust caster and camber. This may just be the best way to go.
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Looks like if we don't want to have crowded under dash lines and hoses (as in if we mounted directly to the firewall instead), then the only other option is through the alignment access hole per the vintage air default instructions. Can you make that work and still have the lines hug high and tight in the fender well as per your original plan?
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I edited the last post to reflect that the VA directions may be the only way to make it work and look decent.
To answer your question directly...I think that with the prebent lines at the access hole, I should be able to at least duplicate what they show. I don't know how tightly grouped they are on the engine side, I'd need to search for pictures of installations performed as shown in the instructions.
Heater hose routing will look cleaner since they won't go fore/aft of the fender apron.
After 10:00 PM, I'll have a few hours to surf the forums to see what I find. I'll post up what I see.
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I couldn't find many pictures of Vintage Air installations going through the alignment cam hole but here are a few, the first three of a '71 Road Runner by Mopar Jack.
This setup has both the suction and discharge lines going to the passenger side so it is slightly more crowded than what I'll be doing but it does give an impression of what I'll be dealing with.
LOOK at the wide open area back here though!
Even with my own car, I had to set aside the notion of how I loved an uncluttered engine bay. The additional components of the A/C system don't add any beauty but they are a necessary change to make the cars more comfortable to drive in warm/hot weather.
This setup has both the suction and discharge lines going to the passenger side so it is slightly more crowded than what I'll be doing but it does give an impression of what I'll be dealing with.
LOOK at the wide open area back here though!
Even with my own car, I had to set aside the notion of how I loved an uncluttered engine bay. The additional components of the A/C system don't add any beauty but they are a necessary change to make the cars more comfortable to drive in warm/hot weather.
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Today I ordered the pre-bent lines that I mentioned before. Vintage did not have them in stock, they have to bend them to order. I dealt with a man at a local Hot Rod shop. The clerk thought that it was possible that VA makes just enough of the "model specific" parts to be packaged in their complete kits and that some of the "ala carte" stuff has to be made to order. I get that....nobody wants to sit on a bunch of extra inventory that is of low demand.
If these lines would have been in the box when I started this installation, I would have just used them and been done long ago. Just like with my Classic kit, every routing location has it's good points and bad points but with my kit, I just accepted the drawbacks and forged ahead.
I could have done the same here and saved myself weeks of frustration trying to reinvent the wheel with the different routing paths IF the hard lines were included. I don't mind some minor fabrication and outside the box thinking. I've done that for years in construction but in this case, I have a nagging drive to make sure the owner of this car is happy with the results of the project.
It could be awhile before those lines are shipped, so in the meantime, I can still focus on other aspects of it all. Going through the wheelwell/firewall, Dwayne likes the idea of running the lines close to the firewall to avoid risks of contact with the tire. I could still use the manifold or the individual fittings:
The tight U turn type bend for the heater hoses seems like it could put the hoses into a pinch/kink. I thought of cutting this in half:
I could then use lines tucked in closer and have bends that don't kink.
I'm just spitballin again. As always, all ideas are subject to change.
If these lines would have been in the box when I started this installation, I would have just used them and been done long ago. Just like with my Classic kit, every routing location has it's good points and bad points but with my kit, I just accepted the drawbacks and forged ahead.
I could have done the same here and saved myself weeks of frustration trying to reinvent the wheel with the different routing paths IF the hard lines were included. I don't mind some minor fabrication and outside the box thinking. I've done that for years in construction but in this case, I have a nagging drive to make sure the owner of this car is happy with the results of the project.
It could be awhile before those lines are shipped, so in the meantime, I can still focus on other aspects of it all. Going through the wheelwell/firewall, Dwayne likes the idea of running the lines close to the firewall to avoid risks of contact with the tire. I could still use the manifold or the individual fittings:
The tight U turn type bend for the heater hoses seems like it could put the hoses into a pinch/kink. I thought of cutting this in half:
I could then use lines tucked in closer and have bends that don't kink.
I'm just spitballin again. As always, all ideas are subject to change.
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Thanks Greg. From here on out with this AC line/hose install, I'm fine with whatever you decide. Nice progress.
70ChargerRT
Well-Known Member
Here’s the only pic I could muster up of mine. I still plan on doing some adjustments on shortening up some of the lines and changing the clamps out on the heater hoses.
70ChargerRT
Well-Known Member
Got the car out on this beautiful day in our area before I send the Borgeson box back to Peter. This is how I have everything now if this helps any.
Not wanting to jump too far ahead, but have you guys noticed a substantial increase in price of the R134 gas for A/C?
Apparently down here it has jumped to four times what it used to be just prior to Covid killing all our fun hobbies. I just re-charged my work van and it cost me around US$210 for a single unit. My brothers van has 2 A/C fan units and took nearly twice that amount to re-charge.
Apparently down here it has jumped to four times what it used to be just prior to Covid killing all our fun hobbies. I just re-charged my work van and it cost me around US$210 for a single unit. My brothers van has 2 A/C fan units and took nearly twice that amount to re-charge.
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Holeeee crap! I haven't had to recharge anything since 2020 when my truck sprung a leak. The Charger needs a recharge and this Plymouth will obviously need some. A buddy told me of how California has some BS regulations that result in higher 134 prices and that a simple drive over to Nevada can really be worth the trip.
Luckily I learned years ago back when I stocked up on R12..... I started with over 50# of R12
This time I have around 250# of R134..
This time I have around 250# of R134..
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Y'all got me curious, so I did a quick look on AutoZone's website. Seems a 12oz can of r134a is $12, but
the "California compliant" version is $30?
the "California compliant" version is $30?
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Probably the exact same contents but with a bunch of additional taxes and fees that do nothing to help or hurt the environment.
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Is it all synthetic?
I'm sure the manufacturer had to go through some bullshit process of getting their product "licensed" in CA...
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Ha ha...
I wanted to quote this so if you bonk your head and somehow find fault with the installation, I have proof of permission!
I've been out of the game a bit the past 2 weeks. I had a few sections of trees fall out back...
Lots of chain saw and lopper work, I loaded up all the twigs and branches to haul off...
Still more to do but I did order and receive the hard lines that will go through the fender apron:
These will allow the lines to tuck close to the edge of the fender apron for clearance away from the tire and wheel. You see where they mention the lines and clamps are included in hose kit?
I didn't get a "hose kit". When I got the car, I got bits and pieces. I'm flying (sort of) blind on much of this. The alignment cam hole cover is steel, the replacement cover VA sells is plastic but it came with oversized holes with no grommets. I have grommets to use where the lines come through the firewall, leading to the evaporator but none for the plastic cover. Not a problem, just another step that I didn't expect.
I am hoping for the sake of everyone reading this that if you plan to do a project like this, don't buy these kits in pieces unless you have done it before. If you're just doing it for the first time, just buy the complete kit that includes everything they suggest. If you're experienced with these systems, you may know of short cuts or ways that you prefer to install that differ from what the manufacturer suggests. If I had more experience, I would have been able to look over the contents of the boxes and know what I'm missing.
I am just a gearhead that works at things until I find a way. I sometimes get a little help from smarter guys on these forums and I'm always thankful for that.
I did buy a hydraulic crimper a few weeks back and got a chance to test it. Two crimps today:
Those crimps look pretty good to me!
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