Cooling issues - and a weird question

[moparedtn]

Here's an option if you're too worried: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all30100

Is that the one you use? What spacer?

 

[moparedtn]

Ed just checked mine with new Mishimoto rad(2-1/2" core) 26" mounted on stock 22" support with an old fan clutch. 1" clutch to rad.,1-1/2" blade to fan; almost centered in an old factory shroud w/7-blade factory fan.Im not worried about eng. movement because I'm still using amoroso solid steel m.mounts from when I raced my Bee.

Same difference, really. Your radiator is 1/2" thinner in the core, but you're using the stock clutch, which is 3/4" thicker than the Hayden.
Thanks!

 

[coloradodave]

Is that the one you use? What spacer?

My car is a 63 Fury, so it's apples and oranges. You can mock it up and see how much spacer will put the fan 1/2 in and 1/2 out of the shroud. These steel ones don't flex, but I'd still like to see 3/4" from the forward edge of the blade to the core. Also need to check the trailing edge of the blade to fan belt and accessory pulleys.

 

[moparedtn]

The Summit water pump finally arrived yesterday afternoon (Nevada? Really, Summit?). Looks sturdy. 8 vanes, spot welded in several places.
Got it on there and gave it a quick spray bombing of orange.
I reckon it'll be time to start cobbling all this together this evening, events and stamina willing.

 

[TxDon]

Ed, I installed the lower hose spring in my car and took it for a long ride in Texas 90s heat today. The temp gauge stayed around 190 and never reached 200, first time I can say that in summer since I've had my car. Thanks to you and others who got me to check!

 

[moparedtn]

Ed, I installed the lower hose spring in my car and took it for a long ride in Texas 90s heat today. The temp gauge stayed around 190 and never reached 200, first time I can say that in summer since I've had my car. Thanks to you and others who got me to check!

Hey, that's great Don. Glad to hear it!
I'll start putting mine together tomorrow.

I have a decision to make right off the bat, though -
do I drill new radiator mounting holes in the new radiator or in the radiator support itself? It's got to raise up about an inch from where Griffin put the mounting holes.

EDIT/UPDATE:
Couldn't stand it, went out there tonight.
I drilled the support on the fear of voiding the warranty on the Griffin.
The determining factor on just how much to raise the radiator wound up being my eyeballing the really tall Mr Gasket thermometer radiator cap vs. the hood closing.
I wound up drilling new mounting holes in the support about 5/8" up from the original ones, then temporarily hanging the radiator, checking for level and such.
Once that looked semi-ok, I then tried out the new shroud.
It went right on the radiator like it was meant to be there and when I took a tape measure to it, it showed almost exactly 10" from the centerline of the water pump to the lip of the fan opening of the shroud in all four directions.
Hood still closed, too...

I'll call that good.

Moral of the story:
All four of the original mounting holes didn't work with this radiator - in fact, I need to chisel the top weld nut on the drivers' side off the support, as it is interfering with a nice flat fitment of washer/nut of the relocated mounting point.
Anyways, position of the radiator is set.
Just got to get everything assembled back on the car now.

 

[moparedtn]

You know, I can remember when this was the time of week to be somewhere, raising cain....
Anyways, time to slap this thing together.

Got my holes drilled in the raddy support. Here goes nothing.

 

[moparedtn]

Ok, she's hard mounted:

First problem encountered....
These studs I got for fan clutch mounting won't work with the short clutch.
Too tight in there!

Going to have to cut them off.

 

[moparedtn]

In fact, the studs won't work at all; no way to start the nuts on them:

I guess I could use one of them for the bottom mounting point, but there's only enough room for bolt heads otherwise in there:

Bolt chopping to commence...

 

[moparedtn]

Time out. Hold the phone....
Here's the clutch/fan with a bolt run up snug on it:

Folks, that's just too tight for comfort for me. About an inch up top, less than that below accounting for the tilt of the engine.
Not only that, those mounting bolts on the clutch to pump are a NIGHTMARE.

Ok, one more pic for tonight. Here's the shroud placed on the studs:

Maybe about a quarter of the fan blades are actually within the shroud lip.
That's not desirable either, obviously.
It's quite apparent that the shroud is designed to work in conjunction with the stock thickness clutch - and both are designed to work with a radiator that is much thinner, too - not anything like this Griffin, which is ALL the thick.

Final nail in the coffin is my being picky - the radiator needs to move towards the drivers' side another half inch or so to be truly centered on the pump/fan.
That will also expose more of the core to the air as well (refer to the first pic in post #108 and you'll see the shift).

This initial attack was not successful. Time to back off and regroup...

P.S.: Something else I found interesting in this mock-up tonight - the radiator support has those raised ridges the radiator fits up flush against, holding it a little less than a half inch off the actual face of the support.
They wanted a gap in there for whatever reason - a gap that helped make things too tight on the fan/radiator clearance issue.

Not only that, the shroud is also designed to mount off the face of the radiator by a pretty good amount (looks to be about 3/8") as well.
Look at the shroud pic above closely and you can actually see the gap and the little pads molded into it that make it do that.

Now, given both those obviously intentional gaps by Ma herself, is it actually wise to seal up those gaps like so many folks do?
Things that make you go hmmmm.....

 

[Fran Blacker]

Ed time to go with fixed fan, as was said Coloradodave post #92 what is a few hp on a street car.

 

[moparedtn]

Ed time to go with fixed fan, as was said Coloradodave post #92 what is a few hp on a street car.

You're reading my mind, Fran.
I am in agreement now.
My measurements tell me I need a 1.5" spacer (assuming the fixed fans' blades are centered on their mounting flange front/back, thickness-wise) and a fixed fan.

Further, I am going to drill yet more radiator mounting holes and move the radiator at least a half inch towards drivers' side to get it centered better. The vertical looks pretty darn good at this point, so I'm not altering that.
Plenty of room to do this; in fact, the radiator is up against the passenger frame rail right now and it does have a healthy cutout on the mounting flange to clear the battery tray on the drivers' side, so the thing is practically telling me what to do there.

 

[moparedtn]

My car is a 63 Fury, so it's apples and oranges. You can mock it up and see how much spacer will put the fan 1/2 in and 1/2 out of the shroud. These steel ones don't flex, but I'd still like to see 3/4" from the forward edge of the blade to the core. Also need to check the trailing edge of the blade to fan belt and accessory pulleys.

Thanks again, Dave.
As a result of your advice, I've got these coming from Summit:

As far as I can determine from measuring, I need the 1.5" spacer. This one from the same maker as the fan looks to be a quality piece, so I ordered it and the fan Dave suggested today.
I'll be returning the Hayden clutch. At $63, I can use that refund.
No way I could sell it for that.

Thanks again, Dave.

 

[coloradodave]

You're welcome, Ed. I hope these work out for you.

 

[moparedtn]

Ok, let's try this again.
More new mounting holes, moving radiator more to drivers' side.
Core now much better in opening:

....and once again, screeching halt.
Remember how I thought the studs I bought before came with the wrong pitch nuts?
Come to find out, they weren't "wrong" - the fact Mopar uses the coarser threads for fan/clutch to pump is what's wrong.
Apparently other makers don't do that.

Bolt on the left fits our water pumps - it's 5/16-18 thread.
The "universal" one on the right (which is 5/16-24) does not, same as the studs kit I got the other day.
Wish somebody would have said something... :-(

I'll put the bottom hose on and install the thermostat tonight
Other than that......

 

[moparedtn]

Looky there.
I decided to temporarily mount the fan directly to the pulley and...
...1 1/2" spacer would have been too big anyways.

Ok, here's the critical dimensions:
- there is 2 1/2" from face of radiator core to edge of shroud opening
- there is 3 1/2" from face of radiator core to the face of pulley
- this fixed fan has a "swept" area of 2" front/back and 1 1/2" of that is forward of the mounting flange; 1/2" is behind the flange

Therein lies the problem(s).
I've read quite a bit of advice that says the optimum fan blade spacing off the radiator is 1" or so.
Well, you can't have that and have the blade be half-in/half out of this factory shroud, since it's 2 1/2" thick - unless you come up with a fan with a blade swept area of like 3" or so.

The question then begs:
Is it more important to get the fan blade within an inch of the radiator core OR to get it half-in/half-out of the lip of the shroud?
I can't have both and the answer will determine what spacer I need:
- 1/2" spacer will get the fan half-in/half-out the shroud
- 1" spacer will get the fan within 1" of the radiator core

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

events and stamina willing.

 

[moparedtn]

Eh?

 

[moparedtn]

--

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

After a full day stuck in traffic,it's getting harder to find willing stamina