Cooling issues - and a weird question

[moparedtn]

After a full day stuck in traffic,it's getting harder to find willing stamina

I lived that life for some decades, until I relocated down here in '96.
Absolutely couldn't stand it anymore, having grown up in Atlanta and living in the DC area for 20 years more.
Quality of life that ain't.

Now it's a simple matter of staying alive long enough to see this through - something I've had a lousy track record at the last several years.
Still here, though....and I will.

 

[khryslerkid]

View attachment 438319
Looky there.
I decided to temporarily mount the fan directly to the pulley and...
...1 1/2" spacer would have been too big anyways.

Ok, here's the critical dimensions:
- there is 2 1/2" from face of radiator core to edge of shroud opening
- there is 3 1/2" from face of radiator core to the face of pulley
- this fixed fan has a "swept" area of 2" front/back and 1 1/2" of that is forward of the mounting flange; 1/2" is behind the flange

Therein lies the problem(s).
I've read quite a bit of advice that says the optimum fan blade spacing off the radiator is 1" or so.
Well, you can't have that and have the blade be half-in/half out of this factory shroud, since it's 2 1/2" thick - unless you come up with a fan with a blade swept area of like 3" or so.

The question then begs:
Is it more important to get the fan blade within an inch of the radiator core OR to get it half-in/half-out of the lip of the shroud?
I can't have both and the answer will determine what spacer I need:
- 1/2" spacer will get the fan half-in/half-out the shroud
- 1" spacer will get the fan within 1" of the radiator core

What I understand is, if you're not useing a fan shroud you need the fan to be 1" from the radiator.

If you're useing a fan shroud, you need to have the fan location right with the shroud. The distance from the radiator is not important when useing a shroud as long as it's not too close.

That's my conclusion after going through the same thing that you are.

The other thing I ran into was the distance of the fan being closer at the bottom of the radiator. If you study the original radiator, you'll see that the mounting bracket is wider at the top, compensating for the engine being tilted back. The aftermarket radiators don't have that type of bracket.

I was even having problems trying to find a top hose that would work. Every one was an inch short. So to solve both problems I spaced the radiator 3/4" at the top and everything worked out great. I made fillers at the sides. Looking for some rubber material to fill the gap up top. I don't know if the fillers are needed but it looks cleaner.

BTW, bought the same fan you just bought. Nice fan, good price.

 

[moparedtn]

What I understand is, if you're not useing a fan shroud you need the fan to be 1" from the radiator.

If you're useing a fan shroud, you need to have the fan location right with the shroud. The distance from the radiator is not important when useing a shroud as long as it's not too close.

That's my conclusion after going through the same thing that you are.

The other thing I ran into was the distance of the fan being closer at the bottom of the radiator. If you study the original radiator, you'll see that the mounting bracket is wider at the top, compensating for the engine being tilted back. The aftermarket radiators don't have that type of bracket.

I was even having problems trying to find a top hose that would work. Every one was an inch short. So to solve both problems I spaced the radiator 3/4" at the top and everything worked out great. I made fillers at the sides. Looking for some rubber material to fill the gap up top. I don't know if the fillers are needed but it looks cleaner.

BTW, bought the same fan you just bought. Nice fan, good price.
View attachment 438366

Thanks yet again, KK. Always appreciate your sage wisdom in these matters.
That being the case, I need to fetch a 1/2" spacer (with the correct @%$%# bolts) and be done with this.

Yep, the Griffin is uniformly thick top and bottom and our engines sit at a decided cant, causing the bottom of the fan to be at least 3/8" closer (or more) to the radiator than the top - but what I've found out after buying the Mopar shroud is that Ma actually compensated for this in the shroud itself.
The shroud is actually thinner at the bottom than at the top and it also has molded-in spacers at the top that hold it off the radiator by a noticeable amount (refer to previous pics to see them - there's two of 'em at the top of the shroud).

It's nice that Griffin put the 5 shroud studs at the correct locations, too - they're dead nuts spot-on in locating the factory shroud perfectly on the radiator.
Professor Ehrenberg was correct yet again (when isn't he?) when recommending this unit. It's pricy as heck, but damn nice.
I thanked him by buying the shroud from him.

Oh well, now I have a really nice 1.5" spacer I won't be needing; there's another $25 wasted. Add it to "Ed's Garage Sale", coming soon to these very pages.

Thanks again KK!

 

[oldbee]

I agree with KK. Shroud more important, heck when I did mine Sen.GORE & "his" internet weren't around.

 

[coloradodave]

Khryslerkid is correct. 1/2 in, 1/2 out is where you want the fan. If you're buying from Jegs or Summit just package that spacer up and return it. Finding correct bolts is no problem if you have an Ace , Lowes or NAPA close by. Time to finish it up and RIDE...

 

[moparedtn]

Khryslerkid is correct. 1/2 in, 1/2 out is where you want the fan. If you're buying from Jegs or Summit just package that spacer up and return it. Finding correct bolts is no problem if you have an Ace , Lowes or NAPA close by. Time to finish it up and RIDE...

I tossed the packaging on the spacer. :-(
I guess I could grab that trash bag out of the can and dig out the packaging....

Stopped by the local NAPA today and the owner happened to be there. I told him I needed a 1/2" spacer and he's going to bring one in from home for me.
You're dang right it's time to ride.
I need to finally determine if this engine is any good or not and if the temperature issue was cooling system related or not, the "or not" part being head/head gasket related I guess.
Just as they warned me, I'm growing more exhausted physically by the day.
It's time to wrap this up, one way or the other.
Wish me luck!

 

[khryslerkid]

Wish you luck Ed!

I have several spacers, and a small collection of fan blades, plus several top hoses. (garage sale!)

Don't you hate having your project right there but not there yet?

 

[moparedtn]

Time for an update from the soaked regions of NE Tennessee!
(Gee, thanks Cindy - like we didn't have enough water already)

With a spacer I obtained from a friend at the local NAPA (he even gave me bolts/washers!), here we go again:

Not bad - and I've at least temporarily decided not to fill in the gaps around the shroud to radiator. I figure Ma put those stand-offs on it for a reason?

There's the 18" fan from Summit that Dave recommended. It seems very well built and the price was nice, too. BTW, the opening in the shroud is like 20" or so.
The spacer is 1" aluminum and yes, it's a stone biyotch getting those bolts in.

Fan blades wound up at least 1" clear of the radiator but a tad more than halfway in the shroud opening, but if I used a 1/2" spacer, the opposite would have been true - a little more than half the blades would have been outside the shroud.
Potato, potAHHto...

The whole she-bang wound up sort of looking like it belongs in there.
Factory-ish, even.
Got the hoses back on it (makeshift springage inserted in bottom hose) and she's all buttoned back up, awaiting fluids.

Next question:
The antifreeze I drained out is not re-useable.
Do I:
a. temporarily fill with straight water just in case to test everything?
b. fill with just distilled water and throw the bottles of Water Wetter in until winter, assuming this is going to work?
c. bite the bullet, buy all the pre-mix and toss it in with the Water Wetter and willpower this thing into being a done deal?

Oh, time to start selling off stuff as well.
Think I'll begin with these:

 

[coloradodave]

I vote 'b. with ONE bottle of water wetter. Go for it, Ed...

 

[oldbee]

'B'. & turn the clutch nose down(the fluid can leak out)

 

[khryslerkid]

Looking good Ed

Bolts hard to get too... I learned a long time ago to remove the radiator when doing any water pump R and R. Makes life easier.

I must have had mine in and out a dozen times before I got the right fan, shroud combination. I had to be extremely careful when pulling or dropping the radiator back not to touch anything an F up the fins. I would just lay the shroud back over the pump and alternator, pull the radiator. Same in reverse.

Time to ride!

 

[moparedtn]

I vote 'b. with ONE bottle of water wetter. Go for it, Ed...

Thanky much, Dave. Yeah, a half dozen gallon jugs from the grocery ought to get it I guess? Who knows how much this thing holds now...

'B'. & turn the clutch nose down(the fluid can leak out)

Thanks! Now, which side is the "nose"? The spring side?

 

[moparedtn]

Looking good Ed

Bolts hard to get too... I learned a long time ago to remove the radiator when doing any water pump R and R. Makes life easier.

I must have had mine in and out a dozen times before I got the right fan, shroud combination. I had to be extremely careful when pulling or dropping the radiator back not to touch anything an F up the fins. I would just lay the shroud back over the pump and alternator, pull the radiator. Same in reverse.

Time to ride! View attachment 439186

Yeah, that was the original plan here too - the eventual order of things getting settled and bought (and then bought again - and again) sort of led me to today and the not so optimal final assembly.
You can see in these aluminum fins that all you have to do is pretty much brush up against them with the back or your hand and it looks like you did actual damage to 'em.
Sheesh.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

Whichever option you use for coolant, best have some rust inhibiter and water pump lubrication in it . If not, you will have red water in short time................................MO

 

[moparedtn]

Whichever option you use for coolant, best have some rust inhibiter and water pump lubrication in it . If not, you will have red water in short time................................MO

"Red Line Water Wetter provides corrosion and rust protection for modern aluminum and cast iron cooling systems. This unique additive reduces coolant temperatures by as much as 20 degrees F. It can be used in plain water to provide much better heat transfer properties and protection than glycol-based antifreeze, or added to new or used antifreeze to fortify inhibitors and reduce foaming."

 

[oldbee]

Re: rad fins, don't "brush" too hard or back of ur hand will start getting "red" too. Yup clutch nose is rad.side. Good luck. Jeff

 

[moparedtn]

Re: rad fins, don't "brush" too hard or back of ur hand will start getting "red" too. Yup clutch nose is rad.side. Good luck. Jeff

LOL
The fins in this Griffin are so dense it's nuts.
There's 16 tubes per inch density in this thing, not to mention it's a full 3" thick just like the top and bottom tanks.
For an aluminum radiator, it's quite substantial (heavy).

 

[moparedtn]

 

[Cranky]

How deep are the radiator tubes? I like at least 1" and yes, I've been down this road many times lol. I learned years ago that 4 row radiators are a waste of money....

 

[oldbee]

Jeez, looks like enuf to fill a semi!!