Detail Question on Plug Wire location on a Prestolite DP Distributor on Hemi

[Dragon Slayer]

So here is the difference between a Prestolite and Chrysler distributor that shows you how the clips are different position when VC points in same direction. Also notice how the Chry cam stop notch is 90deg different. That is because the rotor notch is 90 different between Chr and Pre rotors(constant). Though you can't see it I had the tip oriented the same.

The picture from the chiltons is accurate based on the Chrysler and that is also why it makes sense about shifting wire one hole for prestolite. The generic diagrams that have you straddle clip clearly would not be correct unless the rotor point one over too.

If you google hemi engine and view images you can see a lot close ups of various car with Prestolite distributor, with enough resolution to follow #1 wire to the distributor. I just found it interest how they were located in so many different spot it prompted my original question based on the variations I have found it Prestolite distributor parts.

Which does not even get to the question of what are the correct prestolite part numbers in a OEM Hemi distributor. 50 years of rebuilt an refurbished can change the characteristic of parts in my opinion.

 

[Dragon Slayer]

Hostile...lol What a joke.....Again, they are questions....

Lets see this car your building? Lets see the actual parts restored?

I never stated "it didn't matter" it does when it is built improperly and installed improperly....The majority here including myself do not build their own distributors but Bill Overcash and Frank Badalson have built mine with complete NOS/original parts....

So as you dig deeper have you asked the professionals that build these to OE specs? Like the two individuals I mentioned above....

Or are you going to make another smart aleck remark? I see why your threads on other forums have fizzled.....

This is not hostile or attacking. LOL. I have to have a car to ask a relevant question? Your the one that came in with answers yet you do not rebuild your own parts?

I posted pictures showing you the difference, why not acknowledge that an provide an answer? You seem to be walking back your initial responses now.

Those are pictures of real restored parts showing you differences. The real answer seems to be you do not know. I am not trying to make enemies and I am sorry if it came across that way, but I Really felt like you were attacking me, but you laugh that off and say I am a smart aleck. I have to explain to you why I posted on 2 sites. I have to prove to you I have a real car and have real parts, I have to show pictures. Come on man. Some of my questions fizzle because some of the answers are really not known. I have talked to various experts who privately have said they don't know the answer about certain things. Power Steering and Water Pumps to be exact.

 

[moparnation74]

This is not hostile or attacking. LOL. I have to have a car to ask a relevant question? Your the one that came in with answers yet you do not rebuild your own parts?

I posted pictures showing you the difference, why not acknowledge that an provide an answer? You seem to be walking back your initial responses now.

Those are pictures of real restored parts showing you differences. The real answer seems to be you do not know. I am not trying to make enemies and I am sorry if it came across that way, but I Really felt like you were attacking me, but you laugh that off and say I am a smart aleck. I have to explain to you why I posted on 2 sites. I have to prove to you I have a real car and have real parts, I have to show pictures. Come on man. Some of my questions fizzle because some of the answers are really not known. I have talked to various experts who privately have said they don't know the answer about certain things. Power Steering and Water Pumps to be exact.

Where did I say you have to have a car to ask a relevant question? Where? Show me where that is actually stated...Please....you are molding questions into something else...

Based on your postings and how **** your are trying to portray yourself...I am really interested in seeing a car or these rebuilt parts? Is that too much to ask? I am a fellow OE nut so I am interested....

Your welcome to look at my thread over in the restoration section here before you make an idiot comment as such in bold........

I answered your original question as this thread started...So yes I do know....Then you turned this into the actual internals and changed the subject from the original question...

Wow, so sorry I didn't rebuild and recurve my distributor along with some other parts....Through the years I have the ability to spend my precious time on other things than rebuilding something I have done many times in the past.

 

[dieseldazzle]

I am sorry, but some of your questions come across as hostile and condescending. It is a simple question. IF you follow the MOPAR service manual for setting the distributor gear timing. And you place the Distributor in the motor as directed with the VC pointing towards the center of the motor (You really do not have much room to do otherwise on a hemi because of the intake and fuel lines, where does the rotor point on the cap for #1 wire.

So for those of you that really do not now the variations on Prestolite parts here are 2 pictures. Notice the 2 RB distributor shafts, one is NOS not yet drilled for the collar pin. See how the tip is at a different angle. Because of that the Cam Stop will orient differently if dropped in the same horizontal slot on the distributor gear.

Now look at the Cam stops, all are for Prestolite caps and rotors not Chrysler ones. See the flat at various angles. Again this forces the rotor to point in a different direction. So if someone mixed and matched different parts to salvage a ""hemi" Distributor it could be done but the position of the rotor when #1 is at TDC would be different.

I can also help school you on Chrysler shafts and cam stops, much more universal though. When I work distributors I literally am working a dozen at a time. So I can see and measure differences. For example presotolite IBP-1 bodies have different lengths that drive different length shafts. The mounting face to tip is the same big block length, but the shafts are 3/8" longer which is significant considering the limited engagement depth of the tip. The reason is the bearing to bearing length varied over the years.

I am just trying to learn and equate what I am seeing and doing to what is suppose to be OEM correct. For a bunch of guys that point out a certain bolt under a fender should not be painted to say the distributor doesn't matter seems a little funny. If the nose gasket on a superbird was on upside down does that matter; or would you say it has the gasket so perfect score? If it does matter, shouldn't the distributor and wire orientation? I know that was a little snarky but jeez, it really started as a simple question.

By the way I do read. Service manuals, parts manuals, Master Training documents. A wealth of interesting information to learn from if you did not grow up with these cars from the 70s up. View attachment 564829 View attachment 564830

Nothing hostile nor ill intended here. You seem like a wealth of knowledge so it really makes no sense to me why you are asking this question when it is EASILY remedied by simply clocking the oil pump driveshaft....

Other than that you are really just beating your chest and calling out the service manual as being incorrect if Im reading right??

 

[miller]

Naw...won't do it...

 

[Dragon Slayer]

I don't want to keep going back and forth with you, reread your 1121 post. Not verbatim, but you asked me if I am working on a car or just reading literature and pictures. Some one else said the same thing. If I asked you if you gave answers and advice based on what you read vice actually doing it; wouldn't you take offense, you did when I commented that you did not rebuild your own distributor.

The internals matter, there part of the discussion along with drive gear slot position. It is not redirection, it is physical fact. Can you explain two otherwise identical RB Prestolite shaft with tips at different orientation? How about the cam stops?

Go look on ebay, several people just paid high dollar for unrestored distributor with hemi and 6 pack tags. The tag is held on with a screw. I have seen plenty of distributor that were left in the weather with broken housing, bent/corroded shafts, worn cam stops. Any one could move the tag to a DP 440 distributor and then call it a hemi. Or mix and match a cam stop with a shaft trying to make money. These parts are approaching 50 years old, how many times have they been recycled through a rebuilding process.

All this was prompted when I removed my distributor from my real hemi car to validate and document what was in it. Paint the housing, an check the tolerances against the service manual. After doing that it begged the question where does # 1 wire go since it is not discussed in the service manual with a diagram like Motor Reference or Chilton. When I googled pictures of well restored original looking engines #1 wire is in a multitude of spots.

I am just trying to put back they way it "should have come from the factory" and try to validate that the internals in my distributor are correct.

So here are some MORE pictures of my distributor and motor. Based on the Chilton data with #1 rotatate CW one spot, it matches how mine is oriented. So I may be good.

 

[dieseldazzle]

I don't want to keep going back and forth with you, reread your 1121 post. Not verbatim, but you asked me if I am working on a car or just reading literature and pictures. Some one else said the same thing. If I asked you if you gave answers and advice based on what you read vice actually doing it; wouldn't you take offense, you did when I commented that you did not rebuild your own distributor.

The internals matter, there part of the discussion along with drive gear slot position. It is not redirection, it is physical fact. Can you explain two otherwise identical RB Prestolite shaft with tips at different orientation? How about the cam stops?

Go look on ebay, several people just paid high dollar for unrestored distributor with hemi and 6 pack tags. The tag is held on with a screw. I have seen plenty of distributor that were left in the weather with broken housing, bent/corroded shafts, worn cam stops. Any one could move the tag to a DP 440 distributor and then call it a hemi. Or mix and match a cam stop with a shaft trying to make money. These parts are approaching 50 years old, how many times have they been recycled through a rebuilding process.

All this was prompted when I removed my distributor from my real hemi car to validate and document what was in it. Paint the housing, an check the tolerances against the service manual. After doing that it begged the question where does # 1 wire go since it is not discussed in the service manual with a diagram like Motor Reference or Chilton. When I googled pictures of well restored original looking engines #1 wire is in a multitude of spots.

I am just trying to put back they way it "should have come from the factory" and try to validate that the internals in my distributor are correct.

So here are some MORE pictures of my distributor and motor. Based on the Chilton data with #1 rotatate CW one spot, it matches how mine is oriented. So I may be good.

View attachment 564866 View attachment 564867 View attachment 564868

Ok well we will tell you again that the way they put it from the factory is the same as depicted in the pics I posted, albeit on a six barrel car but I have hemis here too if you think there is a difference bud.

Glad to see you restoring an old hemi car. Rock on.

 

[Dragon Slayer]

No I am not saying service manual not right. My previous post explains what I am doing. Certainly if you get the firing order right the motor will run right. If you knew your distributor was OEM correct and followed the manual it would be obvious. I can see the wire being 180 out, but if the wire is at 45 or 90 or 135 and I have seen all those variations either the gear was timed wrong, or the distributor has different parts. I show you the difference in parts above. If you used those shafts I showed you with the same cam stop, the rotor would point 45 degree off, because the tip is oriented 45deg different. When you dropped that into the motor and replaced the cap your firing #8 instead of #1 and the car would not start. So you have to compare parts before your swap, or you have to follow the service manual and get #1 on TDC and then install the distributor and now where the rotor point is the new #1 location on the cap.

 

[miller]

Or, put the right parts in it right, to begin with. Hemi, or not.

 

[moparnation74]

I don't want to keep going back and forth with you, reread your 1121 post. Not verbatim, but you asked me if I am working on a car or just reading literature and pictures. Some one else said the same thing. If I asked you if you gave answers and advice based on what you read vice actually doing it; wouldn't you take offense, you did when I commented that you did not rebuild your own distributor.

The internals matter, there part of the discussion along with drive gear slot position. It is not redirection, it is physical fact. Can you explain two otherwise identical RB Prestolite shaft with tips at different orientation? How about the cam stops?

Go look on ebay, several people just paid high dollar for unrestored distributor with hemi and 6 pack tags. The tag is held on with a screw. I have seen plenty of distributor that were left in the weather with broken housing, bent/corroded shafts, worn cam stops. Any one could move the tag to a DP 440 distributor and then call it a hemi. Or mix and match a cam stop with a shaft trying to make money. These parts are approaching 50 years old, how many times have they been recycled through a rebuilding process.

All this was prompted when I removed my distributor from my real hemi car to validate and document what was in it. Paint the housing, an check the tolerances against the service manual. After doing that it begged the question where does # 1 wire go since it is not discussed in the service manual with a diagram like Motor Reference or Chilton. When I googled pictures of well restored original looking engines #1 wire is in a multitude of spots.

I am just trying to put back they way it "should have come from the factory" and try to validate that the internals in my distributor are correct.

So here are some MORE pictures of my distributor and motor. Based on the Chilton data with #1 rotatate CW one spot, it matches how mine is oriented. So I may be good.

View attachment 564866 View attachment 564867 View attachment 564868

I never took offense.....lol....You just couldnt handle the questions....When asked then you try to crack on my parts, lol...Trust me I was laughing my Azz off when you said that....very ignorant of you...

There is no post 1121 btw.....but in regards to if your building a car or reading literature...Two simple questions and again STOP molding that into something else...very childish of you to do so...All you had to do was answer versus acting like a kid....

Now since we cleared your issues.....The latter half of your post was all you had to post and then it wouldn't have turned into the mess it did.....

Thanks for posting some pics the engine bay looks nice from the limited view...

 

[Dragon Slayer]

Wow do you treat everyone this way. All my fault never you, got it. Sorry I did not ask it they way you need it. Thank you for no useful info.

 

[moparnation74]

I don't want to keep going back and forth with you]

Guess your words didn't last long.....See Below.....

Wow do you treat everyone this way. All my fault never you, got it. Sorry I did not ask it they way you need it. Thank you for no useful info.

OMG...twist and turn dragon slayer....you have that backwards sir but not surprised...

Will you stop now or keep going...your call...lol

 

[toolmanmike]

Back to the regularly scheduled program. You may want to contact @HALIFAXHOPS . He is very knowledgeable and restores many distributors. What is correct? I wouldn't trust anything but the factory service manual. What will work but not correct? One of the many things mentioned above.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

FSM only on the position

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

Nothing you can do to change the rotor position in a distributor as long as it has factory parts, now where it aligns in relation to TDC can be the position of the oil pump drive slot, could be a tooth off and the slot will be in a different position. FSM should show where it should be positioned in relation to TDC then the dist should drop in the correct position, not much else to it at all. Easy fix just pull the dist and set it in the proper position.

 

[Dragon Slayer]

Nothing you can do to change the rotor position in a distributor as long as it has factory parts, now where it aligns in relation to TDC can be the position of the oil pump drive slot, could be a tooth off and the slot will be in a different position. FSM should show where it should be positioned in relation to TDC then the dist should drop in the correct position, not much else to it at all. Easy fix just pull the dist and set it in the proper position.

Right, I know all of that and I follow the service manual and Master Training documents, but a lot of this is regurgitation now when someone dragged this discussion off course. I had a discussion with you a while ago and you mentioned you were going to be doing some DP Prestolites. I asked if you had any data on parts or had recorded data on the markings on the cam stops, did you ever do that? I am sure you probably have bought boxes of loose parts and such, how do you figure out what they go to?

If you look at my pictures of cam stops and Shafts you can see some of the differences I have found. Since the manufacture cross reference data seems to have ended in 65/66. I have found it hard to come by Prestolite specific part number to model information. I asked the current Prestolite company, and they no longer have any of those records.

Part of my adventure here is finding out if my distributor is a correct model for my 69 Hemi. I have the Prestolite Part #, but no one seems to have the Prestolite Service manual that may have had this information. As you know there is a physical and orientation difference between Chry and Pres distributors. I am also finding some subtle difference in what should be common RB DP Prestotolite based on model year.

So my initial question was what position was #1 wire on an original car with correct parts, which generated all this discussion. Dave posted a Chilton picture that actually seems to be the correct answer.

I would certainly be interested in any Cam Stop and shaft parts data you have and can share the data I have found.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

I have been keeping track of them just have a few, when you say cam stop you mean the advance cam with the slots? The shafts seem all the same depending la or big block, no numbers on them at all. I have the sun cards that have some data, I can scan one and send it to your e mail if you want, just need year, trans and you have the dist number great. I saw it went off track just jumped in when TMM hit me with a alert. How about some one that has a Galens? book would it be in that? I never had one so I am not sure.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

Wow never really compared the cam plates only have a few spares, that is a mess where the rotor is positioned on each of them. I have a few more coming in and will definatly start looking at that, yes there is very little info out there on internal parts.

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

Krazy Kuda used to work at mopar making engines wonder if he would know for sure?

 

[toolmanmike]

I have been keeping track of them just have a few, when you say cam stop you mean the advance cam with the slots? The shafts seem all the same depending la or big block, no numbers on them at all. I have the sun cards that have some data, I can scan one and send it to your e mail if you want, just need year, trans and you have the dist number great. I saw it went off track just jumped in when TMM hit me with a alert. How about some one that has a Galens? book would it be in that? I never had one so I am not sure.

A Galen book wil only give you a distributor number for a particular year and application.