Dropped center link from Mancini or 440 Source. Where is it made?

[wedgie]

Many moons ago, I had an aftermarket BB oil pan interference issue on my '65 Coronet. I took the original center link out, cleaned all of the paint and dirt off and added another piece to the bottom, welding both sides a couple of inches in from the curves. I don't recall exactly if I heated and bent the new piece up in order to get more weld area, but I seem to recall using C clamps and an oxy acetylene torch to exactly follow the curvature. Anyhow, then I simply cut the unwelded part of the original out. Everything fit as stock other than extra pan clearance. Worked well. Simple fabrication job. Not as simple as throwing money at new Chinese parts though. (haha)

 

[origcharger]

A question concerning the straight part of the center link.

If the straight across part of the center link were to be modified by lowering it even more, would that screw with the suspension geometry and strength of the unit even if the end mounts end up in the same place as stock?

The 200-1175 Dropped center link I received measures 25” from center to center of tie rod stud holes compared to the two OEM links I have that measure 24 1/2”. Not sure my aftermarket jam nut style tie rod sleeves can be adjusted short enough to accommodate

 

[fullmetaljacket]

The 200-1175 Dropped center link I received measures 25” from center to center of tie rod stud holes compared to the two OEM links I have that measure 24 1/2”. Not sure my aftermarket jam nut style tie rod sleeves can be adjusted short enough to accommodate

So you're saying that the new dropped link is a 1/2 inch too long and that your tie rod adjusting sleeves may bottom out on the adjustments? Just asking to make sure I /we understand.
I have aftermarket aluminum jam style sleeves installed years back. What are your aftermarket units?

 

[origcharger]

Yes, stud holes farther apart. Doing this project in conjunction with a Borgeson box and Bergman tie rods install. Just eyeballing things now as I’m just seeing where spindles are pointing but I’m concerned about things like new steering gear being centered and needing to run tap farther into tie rod sleeves to accommodate. I’m not desperate to use this link as I was just looking for a bit more clearance between backside of oil pan sump.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Yes, stud holes farther apart. Doing this project in conjunction with a Borgeson box and Bergman tie rods install. Just eyeballing things now as I’m just seeing where spindles are pointing but I’m concerned about things like new steering gear being centered and needing to run tap farther into tie rod sleeves to accommodate. I’m not desperate to use this link as I was just looking for a bit more clearance between backside of oil pan sump.

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This photo explains a lot for those of us who are considering this option. It looks to me that this new dropped link also protrudes outward as well as just downward to clear the rear sump walls of a pan. Am I correct?
This may be a plus for most people, but the difference in lengths may produce unwanted problems.

 

[origcharger]

This photo explains a lot for those of us who are considering this option. It looks to me that this new dropped link also protrudes outward as well as just downward to clear the rear sump walls of a pan. Am I correct?
This may be a plus for most people, but the difference in lengths may produce unwanted problems.

It’s offset is in the same direction as the offset in the OEM link.
At the least, tie rod on RH side of car will need to be shortened 1/2”. The irony to me is that the idler arm will also be shifted farther to the RH side which would likely pull link closer to the pan sump on a left hand turn.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

It’s offset is in the same direction as the offset in the OEM link.
At the least, tie rod on RH side of car will need to be shortened 1/2”. The irony to me is that the idler arm will also be shifted farther to the RH side which would likely pull link closer to the pan sump on a left hand turn.

Man, this is deflating. Sorry that you have had to confront this, but at least you have other options than to go playing around with suspension geometry.
I was asking these questions of quality in another thread here and it seemed to get some folks agitated, but this is why we ask for advice and intuition on these forums in order to avoid problems.
Thank you origcharger for your insight and heads up. Perhaps you may find a way around this bump in the road and continue to fill us in.
I think I'll be steering clear of this item for the time being.

 

[dodgeboy440]

Mystery solved. LOL. I got off the phone with Mancini earlier today and they said: Made Overseas.
It should have quality to ensure its performance in a critical area.

Especially IF made in Lower Slobvobia By
Lil Abner …..
That’s Over The Sea Ain’t Ett ?

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Origcharger.
Do you have a spare pair of tie rod end to insert into those drag links to mimic a real tie rod?
My friends who know or remember more of this stuff then I will ever learn said the following:
Inserting a straight bolt may fool the naked eye because the link hole is tapered on one end and a straight bolt may move enough on that end to fool the measurements.
Now, in defense of what your photos show, a 1/2 inch difference for either the pitman arm or idler arm can present a problem, because even though you can adjust the tie rod sleeves in or out, the pitman and idler are stationary with the K- member and move to a certain degree in unison.

Just trying to break the case, and in case I am wrong, I will own up to that wrong.

 

[origcharger]

Origcharger.
Do you have a spare pair of tie rod end to insert into those drag links to mimic a real tie rod?
My friends who know or remember more of this stuff then I will ever learn said the following:
Inserting a straight bolt may fool the naked eye because the link hole is tapered on one end and a straight bolt may move enough on that end to fool the measurements.
Now, in defense of what your photos show, a 1/2 inch difference for either the pitman arm or idler arm can present a problem, because even though you can adjust the tie rod sleeves in or out, the pitman and idler are stationary with the K- member and move to a certain degree in unison.

Just trying to break the case, and in case I am wrong, I will own up to that wrong.

I stuck the bolt in for photo purposes, it travels through the small part of the taper on both links, the 1/2” additional width measurement is about as accurate as you can get with a tape measure.
Thinking maybe I got a fluke, I called 440 Source and was told that they know the link is wider but people have successfully compensated by adjusting tie rod. I asked why the part description says “100 percent OEM specs” and never got an answer other than I can return it for a refund.

 

[Fran Blacker]

If I was installing the center link. Have wheels as straight forward as possible. Measure center of pitman arm bolt head to a fixed point frame rail. Remove center link. Install dropped center link without tie rods. Measure from fixed point to center of pitman bolt, it probably won't the same because of removing center link. Adjust pitman arm bolt head so it is 1/4" closer to your fixed point frame rail point! Adjust your tie rod ends so they drop in center link without moving center link. I'd do this with the weight of the car on front end.
Might want to do fixed point measure on idler arm also. that should read 1/4" less than when you started.

 

[RemCharger]

If you did that , your steering wheel would be crooked.
Replace the link, shorten your RH tie rod assembly by half an inch. Go for a drive. Adjust the RH toe until your wheel is dead on, you're done.
Assuming of course you started with a straight wheel

 

[origcharger]

If I was installing the center link. Have wheels as straight forward as possible. Measure center of pitman arm bolt head to a fixed point frame rail. Remove center link. Install dropped center link without tie rods. Measure from fixed point to center of pitman bolt, it probably won't the same because of removing center link. Adjust pitman arm bolt head so it is 1/4" closer to your fixed point frame rail point! Adjust your tie rod ends so they drop in center link without moving center link. I'd do this with the weight of the car on front end.
Might want to do fixed point measure on idler arm also. that should read 1/4" less than when you started.

moving the pitman arm bolt head 1/4” closer to frame rail to compensate for the 1/2” wider center link will result in steering gear and steering wheel not being centered, imo

 

[Fran Blacker]

moving the pitman arm bolt head 1/4” closer to frame rail to compensate for the 1/2” wider center link will result in steering gear and steering wheel not being centered, imo

I see what you mean so the pitman stays in it's original position. Was think of keeping the pitman idler 1/4" so not to add 1/2" to one side. Thanks

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I stuck the bolt in for photo purposes, it travels through the small part of the taper on both links, the 1/2” additional width measurement is about as accurate as you can get with a tape measure.
Thinking maybe I got a fluke, I called 440 Source and was told that they know the link is wider but people have successfully compensated by adjusting tie rod. I asked why the part description says “100 percent OEM specs” and never got an answer other than I can return it for a refund.

This stuff involves thinking through how so many parts working either in unison or apart in different orientations, so it can confuse theory very easily. I'm puzzled myself.
Two of my friends on here (one of them that would tear us all apart with this aftermarket stuff since he has OEM drag links for every year B-body in stock) have explained it to me in more easier terms. The idler arm being asked or forced to operate out of its rotational orbit can make the steering deeper or shallower. Things could get funny.
In my book, I don't want to stress any suspension part past its intended journey. If anything, I wanna make it stronger and perhaps LIGHTER. LOL.

 

[origcharger]

Yes, vehicles “toe out” on turns, having the idler arm traveling in a different arc than pitman arm is likely to effect the geometry on turns even if you get the straight ahead dialed in.
Thinking this comes down to how bad you need more oil pan clearance and whether your car spends more time on the drag strip or the highway

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Yes, vehicles “toe out” on turns, having the idler arm traveling in a different arc than pitman arm is likely to effect the geometry on turns even if you get the straight ahead dialed in.
Thinking this comes down to how bad you need more oil pan clearance and whether your car spends more time on the drag strip or the highway

A new and correct one is going to be fabricated based on the old OEM one. Done it before and its lighter.

 

[64HEMI330SEDAN]

so from what i am taking from all this reading is that if i install the dropped center link i bought from them. 440 source. all i would have to do is adjust the right side toe and it would work? there advertising is misleading. thats not 100 percent oem replacement. i really want to put a diaper on my engine. i only have the the clearance of a piece of construction paper now. that is not enough clearance for the diaper. messing with the steering system design on a 137 mph race car makes me a little leary on using this link.

 

[Fran Blacker]

so from what i am taking from all this reading is that if i install the dropped center link i bought from them. 440 source. all i would have to do is adjust the right side toe and it would work? there advertising is misleading. thats not 100 percent oem replacement. i really want to put a diaper on my engine. i only have the the clearance of a piece of construction paper now. that is not enough clearance for the diaper. messing with the steering system design on a 137 mph race car makes me a little leary on using this link.

At 137 mph you don't want a failure.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

64Hemi330sedan
Exactly the point.
When we went and had a chrome-moly center section introduced that was plug and seam welded in, it was right on point by simply creating a jig on flat stock metal plate and keeping the ends right where Mother Mopar put them. Why would that be a problem with any other link measurement/alignment in production.
By the way, I'm at 132 mph and change last times out. Very scary in that Amen corner zone and beyond. Just saying.