70bigblockdodge
Well-Known Member
Yes it does. With your attention to detail I'm sure it will be fine.Haha. Yeah, my car won't even be broken in when I head south with it (assuming I even get that far)!
It adds to the excitement!
HawkRod is doing the 2023 Hot Rod Power Tour!
- Thread starter HawkRod
- Start date
Thank you.
But I make mistakes all the time. We'd all love to have perfect knowledge, skills, tools, tricks to work on cars, etc. - I certainly don't. But I try to do things competently and then deal with whatever comes up. I try to be "real" in my threads and show what actually happens, including when I screw up. Hopefully others can learn from my blunders, or perhaps the opposite, from when I test and check things to make sure they are right. I think this hobby is a lot about perseverance to keep slogging through lots of issues until you can finally drive!
I spent the day yesterday unmasking and bolting stuff to the new engine as well as getting it mounted on the K-member. I had hoped to have it 100% complete and ready for insertion into the car, but getting the transmission in was a pain in the butt. I've never had issues with 23 spline transmissions, but this 18 spline is finicky.
Here is the engine after some masking tape was removed and some parts bolted on.
Then I did some prep to get it on the K-member. First I wiped down the K-member and realigned it on my little rolling stand. Back in the day, I might have just muscled it into place, but now I use chains and a hoist.
The view into my garage
Getting the engine ready to hang. Then I roll the K-member under it and bolt the two together.
I bolted on the flywheel and checked the bore concentricity, it should be off no more than .005". This is done by a magnetic base dial holder that attaches to the flywheel. You then measure as you spin the engine.
With standard dowels, my concentricity was off by .018". Not good!
So I inserted offset dowels.
After getting them in and adjusted, my final readings were .003" off.
Then it was time to install the clutch.
Then the transmission had to go in. No pictures of this pain in the a$$, but I had the bellhousing off a couple of times checking alignment. The transmission just didn't want to go all the way in! But finally it did.
This is the way I left it last night. So I still need to get headers and a few other pieces mounted on the assembly and then it will be time to insert it back into the car.
Getting closer!
Here is the engine after some masking tape was removed and some parts bolted on.
Then I did some prep to get it on the K-member. First I wiped down the K-member and realigned it on my little rolling stand. Back in the day, I might have just muscled it into place, but now I use chains and a hoist.
The view into my garage
Getting the engine ready to hang. Then I roll the K-member under it and bolt the two together.
I bolted on the flywheel and checked the bore concentricity, it should be off no more than .005". This is done by a magnetic base dial holder that attaches to the flywheel. You then measure as you spin the engine.
With standard dowels, my concentricity was off by .018". Not good!
So I inserted offset dowels.
After getting them in and adjusted, my final readings were .003" off.
Then it was time to install the clutch.
Then the transmission had to go in. No pictures of this pain in the a$$, but I had the bellhousing off a couple of times checking alignment. The transmission just didn't want to go all the way in! But finally it did.
This is the way I left it last night. So I still need to get headers and a few other pieces mounted on the assembly and then it will be time to insert it back into the car.
Getting closer!
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Nice work Hawk. Remind me, is that a Passon 5 speed?
Yes, it's a Passon A-855. It is essentially geared almost identical to a Hemi four speed but with a .7:1 added overdrive. If I remember properly it can handle 650 Lb ft of torque, so it should be able to handle the beast of an engine that is attached to it...
...my driveshaft and axles are another matter...
With the exception of the lower radiator hose and a torque strap, the engine assembly is ready to be installed in the car.
I got my headers, distributor and wires installed. I love my TTI headers, but they are looking a bit tired after 8 years of use. I think I need to plan to have them re-coated at some point soon. But for now, they have to get installed as-is (although I will at least wipe them down carefully to get grease off before I install the assembly).
Routing wires is always something that I mess with and I never really like what I got. Here is the front of the engine wired up - this is pretty standard.
Here is the passenger side. Although the picture might make it look like the wires are touching or near the headers, there is actually a fair amount of space between them. Having said that, I'd love to route the wires underneath the headers but there just really isn't room.
Here is the driver side routing. Same basic comments as above - there just doesn't seem to be any great way to route #5 and #7.
I also don't love my electric oil pressure gauge in the dash - it operates too slowly when you really want to look at how oil pressure is behaving. Having said that, it is fine for monitoring the engine long term, and I don't want to mount another oil pressure gauge inside the car.
I had an old mechanical gauge laying on a shelf so I made a small bracket and mounted it on the back of the engine. I can easily remove it if I don't like it, and when I am under the hood checking stuff I can see how the oil pressure is behaving. I will at least use it for initial running and checking, but may remove it later if I don't like it.
Next up: Drop the car down on the assembly and get it in the car!
...but first, today I go to my daughter's place for a picnic!
I got my headers, distributor and wires installed. I love my TTI headers, but they are looking a bit tired after 8 years of use. I think I need to plan to have them re-coated at some point soon. But for now, they have to get installed as-is (although I will at least wipe them down carefully to get grease off before I install the assembly).
Routing wires is always something that I mess with and I never really like what I got. Here is the front of the engine wired up - this is pretty standard.
Here is the passenger side. Although the picture might make it look like the wires are touching or near the headers, there is actually a fair amount of space between them. Having said that, I'd love to route the wires underneath the headers but there just really isn't room.
Here is the driver side routing. Same basic comments as above - there just doesn't seem to be any great way to route #5 and #7.
I also don't love my electric oil pressure gauge in the dash - it operates too slowly when you really want to look at how oil pressure is behaving. Having said that, it is fine for monitoring the engine long term, and I don't want to mount another oil pressure gauge inside the car.
I had an old mechanical gauge laying on a shelf so I made a small bracket and mounted it on the back of the engine. I can easily remove it if I don't like it, and when I am under the hood checking stuff I can see how the oil pressure is behaving. I will at least use it for initial running and checking, but may remove it later if I don't like it.
Next up: Drop the car down on the assembly and get it in the car!
...but first, today I go to my daughter's place for a picnic!
I didn't have tons of time to work on the car today but still had a pretty good day.
For the torque strap I mentioned in an earlier post, I had to cut and add a piece because it was too short. I did this a couple of days ago.
Then I powder coated it (OK, my neighbor did it ) and installed it without tightening it down. I wanted the engine and mounts to relax into the proper position in the car before I tightened it up.
I like that it sort of fades away if you are not looking for it, so it fits the theme of my car.
Then I spent time cleaning in the engine compartment. The picture below is why I hate brake fluid. An earlier leak (twice!) had screwed up some of my paint on the inner fender under the master cylinder. This is why I regret not using DOT 5 when I restored my car...
Anyway, then it was time to drop the car onto the engine assembly. Here it is near the start.
As it gets closer, I use a plumb bob to line up the holes
Almost home!
Once it was attached I started connecting various things like brakes, torsion bars, steering, Z bar, wiring, etc. After a bit it looked like this.
With the air cleaner on (by the way, blue tape signifies something I need to remember.):
There are still a few key things to do before I fire it. I have to set the timing for the fast system (locked at 30* BTDC), then I have to figure out all the shims for the A/C and alternator. Since the A/C is hidden this is a bit of a chore because the belts really don't work great. The system works, but you really have to fiddle with it to get the belts to not squeal. Doing the A/C and alternator will likely take 2 hours or so. Yuk!
Anyway, once that is done, I'll have a few odds and ends and then it will be time to fire it up and program the F.A.S.T system and take it for a drive. Hopefully that will all happen tomorrow.
For the torque strap I mentioned in an earlier post, I had to cut and add a piece because it was too short. I did this a couple of days ago.
Then I powder coated it (OK, my neighbor did it
) and installed it without tightening it down. I wanted the engine and mounts to relax into the proper position in the car before I tightened it up.I like that it sort of fades away if you are not looking for it, so it fits the theme of my car.
Then I spent time cleaning in the engine compartment. The picture below is why I hate brake fluid. An earlier leak (twice!) had screwed up some of my paint on the inner fender under the master cylinder. This is why I regret not using DOT 5 when I restored my car...
Anyway, then it was time to drop the car onto the engine assembly. Here it is near the start.
As it gets closer, I use a plumb bob to line up the holes
Almost home!
Once it was attached I started connecting various things like brakes, torsion bars, steering, Z bar, wiring, etc. After a bit it looked like this.
With the air cleaner on (by the way, blue tape signifies something I need to remember.):
There are still a few key things to do before I fire it. I have to set the timing for the fast system (locked at 30* BTDC), then I have to figure out all the shims for the A/C and alternator. Since the A/C is hidden this is a bit of a chore because the belts really don't work great. The system works, but you really have to fiddle with it to get the belts to not squeal. Doing the A/C and alternator will likely take 2 hours or so. Yuk!
Anyway, once that is done, I'll have a few odds and ends and then it will be time to fire it up and program the F.A.S.T system and take it for a drive. Hopefully that will all happen tomorrow.
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Nice work on the torque strap Hawk. Almost done!
OMFG. Man it doesn't just run, it's a demon begging me to push the throttle.... 
...but I'm getting ahead of myself.
This morning, I finished up the remaining task list. I filled fresh antifreeze, topped off the oil (still have break in oil that I will run a hundred miles or so), and finished a few other small odds and ends.
Then I put power to the system and configured the F.A.S.T computer for the new specs. This included setting base timing and locking it down. In the F.A.S.T system, the distributor never changes timing. It is mechanically set 30* BTDC and then the computer does the rest. During setup, the computer locks the timing at 20* BTDC and then you compare it with a timing light and dial it in. Once that is done the computer does everything else. Once parameters were set into the system and the car was fully warmed up, we checked for leaks. I was using the factory clamps on the radiator hoses and the lower and upper radiator hoses where they connect to the engine were both weeping a little bit. I threw some worm gear clamps on them for now and stopped the leaks.
Then it was time for a test drive. Right off the bat, the car ran beautifully. Now, I'm supposed to stay out of the throttle to allow the new clutch to break in (they say 400 miles - haha! There is no way I can get 400 miles of stop and go traffic before I leave to break it in!). So I really tried to stay off the throttle, but involuntary twitches of my right foot kept happening! Wow, it runs (reasonably) quietly, with no hiccups, issues, etc. For example, I was in second gear and at about 1500 RPM. I gave the car about 80% throttle and once it got above 2000 RPM the tires couldn't hold on any more and broke loose. Man, it's got power!!!
I don't do YouTube, so I can't upload a video of it running, but it runs great so far. I will paste a few pictures though. Here are a couple without air cleaner:
Here are a couple with the air cleaner. The intent is for this to look as stock as reasonably possible.
Here are a couple of my belt arrangement. Not ideal, but it works OK. One day I will work to improve it, but no time for that now. The A/C works and no belt squeal, so that's good.
Finally, here is one of the underside.
So, unless I discover any leaks or issues I haven't yet found, it looks like I am good to go for the Hot Rod Power Tour!
...but I'm getting ahead of myself.
This morning, I finished up the remaining task list. I filled fresh antifreeze, topped off the oil (still have break in oil that I will run a hundred miles or so), and finished a few other small odds and ends.
Then I put power to the system and configured the F.A.S.T computer for the new specs. This included setting base timing and locking it down. In the F.A.S.T system, the distributor never changes timing. It is mechanically set 30* BTDC and then the computer does the rest. During setup, the computer locks the timing at 20* BTDC and then you compare it with a timing light and dial it in. Once that is done the computer does everything else. Once parameters were set into the system and the car was fully warmed up, we checked for leaks. I was using the factory clamps on the radiator hoses and the lower and upper radiator hoses where they connect to the engine were both weeping a little bit. I threw some worm gear clamps on them for now and stopped the leaks.
Then it was time for a test drive. Right off the bat, the car ran beautifully. Now, I'm supposed to stay out of the throttle to allow the new clutch to break in (they say 400 miles - haha! There is no way I can get 400 miles of stop and go traffic before I leave to break it in!). So I really tried to stay off the throttle, but involuntary twitches of my right foot kept happening! Wow, it runs (reasonably) quietly, with no hiccups, issues, etc. For example, I was in second gear and at about 1500 RPM. I gave the car about 80% throttle and once it got above 2000 RPM the tires couldn't hold on any more and broke loose. Man, it's got power!!!
I don't do YouTube, so I can't upload a video of it running, but it runs great so far. I will paste a few pictures though. Here are a couple without air cleaner:
Here are a couple with the air cleaner. The intent is for this to look as stock as reasonably possible.
Here are a couple of my belt arrangement. Not ideal, but it works OK. One day I will work to improve it, but no time for that now. The A/C works and no belt squeal, so that's good.
Finally, here is one of the underside.
So, unless I discover any leaks or issues I haven't yet found, it looks like I am good to go for the Hot Rod Power Tour!
Way to go !! Belts.. If it ain't broke,don't fix it ! My 88 Dodge D350 the power steering runs off
the the water pump. Crank runs the alt,a/c and water pump. Factory set up.
the the water pump. Crank runs the alt,a/c and water pump. Factory set up.
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Way to go, Hawk. Isn't torque wonderful?
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you and Barry gonna wheel that thing down here for a shake down run?
I hear you. This works, but it is finicky as hell. One belt drives the water pump and A/C compressor. The other A/C compressor groove drives a separate belt that, in turn, drives the alternator. So the alternator is driven through the A/C pulley. When there is a high electrical load on the car and you are running A/C, there is a lot of force that first belt is trying to drive. Like I said, it works, but if it is even a tiny bit loose, it will squeal.
This is the penalty for a hidden A/C compressor...
It is addictive! I couldn't wait to get this engine back in the car, and I am thrilled now that it is back in and running.
We will definitely get down there at some point. This weekend is Barry's daughter's wedding and next week is the power tour. If we can't get down there before the Power Tour we will certainly do it after.you and Barry gonna wheel that thing down here for a shake down run?
Status Report:
So I drove the car about 300 miles Tuesday and Wednesday. She's now back in the garage dirty, dusty, and with bugs all over it - like it should be!
The Good:
There is lots - I feel this car is damn near the equivalent of a Hellcat Challenger.
You can drive it calmly in stop and go traffic with the A/C blowing cold and tunes cranking. And yet, when you put your foot in it a beast is unleashed that just throws you back in the seat and shreds the tires.
We worked to tune out a small off idle lean surge, and that is working nicely now. We also added some more timing and brought that timing in a little quicker. So now it drives even smoother and the power comes on like a freight train. Overall, I can't say enough good about this car. For me, this is the best classic car I could ever own. Awesome!
The Bad/ To Fix:
Yeah, there is one (besides some little adjustments and minor crap that ain't worth talking about).
Now listen - learn from my mistakes!!!
I bought an integrated windage tray/ gasket for my application (long stroke). Looks like this:
These are supposed to be reusable but I also heard that some who put RTV on then had them come apart when they dropped the pan. So I elected to very carefully seal all the crevices on my pan rail with RTV and smooth those areas out before the pan went on.
Here is a picture of the rear main seal area. After this picture was taken I again smeared some more RTV on it with the goal to make the surface area as flat and smooth as possible over the bolt holes and transition. Then I let this fully cure.
I did the same for the timing cover. Don't have a good picture of this but here you can see the transition in the bottom of the picture.
I used a hammer and dolly to make sure my pan was smooth and flat, and then I installed the gasket/windage tray DRY and bolted the pan on per instructions. I figured I would be smart and allow for easy pan drops if I needed it.
FAIL.
There is a little bit of seepage from the front of the pan. I tried snugging up the bolts but it has continued to seep. Now, mind you, this isn't a huge leak. After my 300 mile journey there are like three drips on my garage floor under the car. I could do the Power Tour with it like it is, but I hate leaks!
My lesson learned is these problem leak areas need some RTV.
The car now needs an oil change to remove the break in oil, so I may drop the pan and put RTV on the gasket. I'm not sure how hard the pan is to drop while in the car. If it is hard then I may need to wait until after the Power Tour.
So I drove the car about 300 miles Tuesday and Wednesday. She's now back in the garage dirty, dusty, and with bugs all over it - like it should be!
The Good:
There is lots - I feel this car is damn near the equivalent of a Hellcat Challenger.
You can drive it calmly in stop and go traffic with the A/C blowing cold and tunes cranking. And yet, when you put your foot in it a beast is unleashed that just throws you back in the seat and shreds the tires.
We worked to tune out a small off idle lean surge, and that is working nicely now. We also added some more timing and brought that timing in a little quicker. So now it drives even smoother and the power comes on like a freight train. Overall, I can't say enough good about this car. For me, this is the best classic car I could ever own. Awesome!
The Bad/ To Fix:
Yeah, there is one (besides some little adjustments and minor crap that ain't worth talking about).
Now listen - learn from my mistakes!!!
I bought an integrated windage tray/ gasket for my application (long stroke). Looks like this:
These are supposed to be reusable but I also heard that some who put RTV on then had them come apart when they dropped the pan. So I elected to very carefully seal all the crevices on my pan rail with RTV and smooth those areas out before the pan went on.
Here is a picture of the rear main seal area. After this picture was taken I again smeared some more RTV on it with the goal to make the surface area as flat and smooth as possible over the bolt holes and transition. Then I let this fully cure.
I did the same for the timing cover. Don't have a good picture of this but here you can see the transition in the bottom of the picture.
I used a hammer and dolly to make sure my pan was smooth and flat, and then I installed the gasket/windage tray DRY and bolted the pan on per instructions. I figured I would be smart and allow for easy pan drops if I needed it.
FAIL.
There is a little bit of seepage from the front of the pan. I tried snugging up the bolts but it has continued to seep. Now, mind you, this isn't a huge leak. After my 300 mile journey there are like three drips on my garage floor under the car. I could do the Power Tour with it like it is, but I hate leaks!
My lesson learned is these problem leak areas need some RTV.
The car now needs an oil change to remove the break in oil, so I may drop the pan and put RTV on the gasket. I'm not sure how hard the pan is to drop while in the car. If it is hard then I may need to wait until after the Power Tour.
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My pan in the Charger came out pretty easily after disconnecting the center link and swinging it out of the way. Your issue with the deeper pan may be working it around the deeper pickup.
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Hawk, you are making me jealous. I remember the freight train feeling. Your comparison to the Hellcat is interesting. For what it is worth, I did beat a Hellcat in time trials at a Mopar event at St. Thomas a number of years ago, and I had a young guy come up to me in the pits trying to figure out how a stock looking 383 , running through full exhaust managed that.
I want to find an excuse to go out and drive it somewhere!!!
I know I might sound like a broken record here, but the "theme" of my car has always been to look as stock as reasonably possible while incorporating some modern amenities. I have had the fuel injection, A/C, overdrive, suspension mods, great stereo, etc. for awhile, but now it has awesome power too. Yet, pop the hood and it looks deceptively stock!
It is just a cool as hell car for me. I know others may have their own preferred way to build their car, and that's great - I respect that. But for me, building my car this way is my dream.
So I hope people don't feel I'm "out there" too far by comparing it to a Hellcat. But I feel there are a lot of similarities. Both can drive long distances comfortably, and both can put some serious power to the ground when wanted. I simply like the "wrapper" of mine a bit better than a modern car!
BTW, Thanks for the note about dropping the pan in the car. I will try that and hope it comes out OK. And then, RTV!!!
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Well, it turns out that my "very minor leak" wasn't "very minor".
When I put the car up on the lift I saw this:
Yes, that is my header all oiled up. My heart sank.
So I looked for where there was oil. Even before I wiped the engine down, there was no oil at the intake manifold, oil pressure senders or valve covers. It definitely seemed to be coming from lower areas, but in driving 5+ hours and 300 some miles, it had obviously blown around and made a mess. So I cleaned up the mess and then ran the car on the lift for over 30 minutes. There was some seepage at both the front and rear of the oil pan.
This was the inside of my inspection cover:
The bottom of it was as dry as can be - not even a trace of oil. But I am pointing to where there was oil. It was wet from where my finger is to the top corner that sits essentially against the oil pan.
So my gamble/ hope is that the rear main seal is fine, but the oil pan leaks. Remember, I ran this thing on the run stand with no apparent leaks. BUT, on the engine stand I only had 4 quarts of oil and the engine wasn't moving. My assumption is that when there is 7 quarts sloshing around during normal acceleration and stopping that it puts more oil against the oil pan seal.
With that assumption, I dropped the pan, cleaned everything meticulously and then put RTV on both the pan side and engine side of the windage tray/ gasket combo. Sorry, no pictures of this, but it is fairly basic. As @qkcuda pointed out, removing the steering linkage gives good access to the pan. The only tricky part was getting the windage tray in place through the oil pickup tube whilst it had RTV smeared on it. But with two of us, I think we were able to do it well. The car is all back together now.
I had a new filter, but not enough oil. So today I will pick up the oil, and test it again. I HOPE I have solved this issue...
When I put the car up on the lift I saw this:
Yes, that is my header all oiled up. My heart sank.
So I looked for where there was oil. Even before I wiped the engine down, there was no oil at the intake manifold, oil pressure senders or valve covers. It definitely seemed to be coming from lower areas, but in driving 5+ hours and 300 some miles, it had obviously blown around and made a mess. So I cleaned up the mess and then ran the car on the lift for over 30 minutes. There was some seepage at both the front and rear of the oil pan.
This was the inside of my inspection cover:
The bottom of it was as dry as can be - not even a trace of oil. But I am pointing to where there was oil. It was wet from where my finger is to the top corner that sits essentially against the oil pan.
So my gamble/ hope is that the rear main seal is fine, but the oil pan leaks. Remember, I ran this thing on the run stand with no apparent leaks. BUT, on the engine stand I only had 4 quarts of oil and the engine wasn't moving. My assumption is that when there is 7 quarts sloshing around during normal acceleration and stopping that it puts more oil against the oil pan seal.
With that assumption, I dropped the pan, cleaned everything meticulously and then put RTV on both the pan side and engine side of the windage tray/ gasket combo. Sorry, no pictures of this, but it is fairly basic. As @qkcuda pointed out, removing the steering linkage gives good access to the pan. The only tricky part was getting the windage tray in place through the oil pickup tube whilst it had RTV smeared on it. But with two of us, I think we were able to do it well. The car is all back together now.
I had a new filter, but not enough oil. So today I will pick up the oil, and test it again. I HOPE I have solved this issue...
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