Lookie what $5000 buys you....

[eldubb440]

note that I was so confident the "crush" repair would be no problem, that I did the *** end rust repair first!

 

[Kern Dog]

I appreciate your confidence. In matters that I have experience, I am confident too. I always have doubts until my eyes have seen things happen. I have built stuff out of wood that looks right but is out of square AND I have built things that are square but don't look right.
I'm not so worried about getting things square because doing so is easy: I just keep shifting stuff around until the cross measurements are the same. I am curious about the side to side height of the frame rails at the core support. I'm only guessing but maybe the car gets set on a level floor, jack stands even from side to side and the furthest forward section of the frame rails are checked off of the floor before welding up the core support?

 

[eldubb440]

I appreciate your confidence. In matters that I have experience, I am confident too. I always have doubts until my eyes have seen things happen. I have built stuff out of wood that looks right but is out of square AND I have built things that are square but don't look right.
I'm not so worried about getting things square because doing so is easy: I just keep shifting stuff around until the cross measurements are the same. I am curious about the side to side height of the frame rails at the core support. I'm only guessing but maybe the car gets set on a level floor, jack stands even from side to side and the furthest forward section of the frame rails are checked off of the floor before welding up the core support?

measuring off the floor is ok if the floor is level and the car is level, It will get you in the ball park, but no welding is to be done until fenders are on and fitted........ the height at the front of the rail is dictated by: 1) door to fender gap 2) distance from top of core support to hood, ie the height of the hood stops being equal.....

****my #1 tell when reconstructing is my own eyes....... I look across the core support in relation to the cowl, and the bottom of the window openings..... I look thru the car to the package tray and rear window opening...... same thing when looking from the rear, across the trunk opening......... just like looking down the side of a studded wall before it is sheet rocked, an out of plum stud will stand out..... if your corner is drooping, or too high you will see it, it will be obvious. (and your fender won't fit)****


the purple car above had both front corners down hard, driver side over 2 inches, pass side over 3 inches...... that is why i posted it, to show how getting the front corners at the proper height is fairly straight forward, and dictated by the front end sheet metal....... sorry if I'm being redundant, I'm trying to ease your intimidation factor

 

[1 Wild R/T]

measuring off the floor is ok if the floor is level and the car is level, It will get you in the ball park, but no welding is to be done until fenders are on and fitted........ the height at the front of the rail is dictated by: 1) door to fender gap 2) distance from top of core support to hood, ie the height of the hood stops being equal.....

****my #1 tell when reconstructing is my own eyes....... I look across the core support in relation to the cowl, and the bottom of the window openings..... I look thru the car to the package tray and rear window opening...... same thing when looking from the rear, across the trunk opening......... just like looking down the side of a studded wall before it is sheet rocked, an out of plum stud will stand out..... if your corner is drooping, or too high you will see it, it will be obvious. (and your fender won't fit)****


the purple car above had both front corners down hard, driver side over 2 inches, pass side over 3 inches...... that is why i posted it, to show how getting the front corners at the proper height is fairly straight forward, and dictated by the front end sheet metal....... sorry if I'm being redundant, I'm trying to ease your intimidation factor

Don’t see it as redundant, see it as reinforcing a point...

And while I tend to take allot of measurements I agree your eyes and reference points should be the true final word

 

[Kern Dog]

Steering the repair toward the theme set by El Dubb,
Here is an idea: Since the cowl top is curled down at the edge...

What if the panel was cut along that edge..... See the point where the horizontal part of the cowl turns almost 90 degrees into the engine bay? Cut along there, Then going down that black line, remove the spotwelds on the lip leading down to the drain, turning left across that lip....

Then cut vertically up that black line ? The section could be hammered into shape, the cowl top could be straightened as well.
There are some leaves in the cowl that need to come out. This would allow me to get a vacuum hose up in there too.
Was this what you were thinking?

 

[Kern Dog]

beat the firewall out from the inside, it don't need much...... I'd probably go as far as cutting the damaged piece of cowl off, beating it straight and welding it back on........

Yeah, I thought you suggested that first!

 

[eldubb440]

Steering the repair toward the theme set by El Dubb,
Here is an idea: Since the cowl top is curled down at the edge...View attachment 832451 View attachment 832452

What if the panel was cut along that edge..... See the point where the horizontal part of the cowl turns almost 90 degrees into the engine bay? Cut along there, Then going down that black line, remove the spotwelds on the lip leading down to the drain, turning left across that lip....

View attachment 832455

Then cut vertically up that black line ? The section could be hammered into shape, the cowl top could be straightened as well.
There are some leaves in the cowl that need to come out. This would allow me to get a vacuum hose up in there too.
Was this what you were thinking?

YES!

with those donor parts, you could just leave a piece of the white upper cowl attached to the white inner fender/rail....... downside would be sacrificing the white upper cowl......OR, you could replace the entire upper cowl and clean out both sides.....but I'm real good at making things a project

the condition of the little cowl vent grilles would go a long way into my decision making

if you cut where you marked it, I'd make the horizontal cut about a 3/8 inch lower, it keeps you from welding and grinding on the corner, and gives the flat upper cowl part some rigidity

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Personally I think I would move the one cut away from the top of the cowl & down to the bottom of that vertical area.. It would require more dolly work to fix the hard line at the cowl but it would reduce the heat going to that flat top area of the cowl..

 

[eldubb440]

and back to the frame rail for a minute...... once you bolt a known straight K frame to the driver side, then bolt the donor rail to it...... the rail will be pretty much where it needs to be, without a ton of wiggle room

 

[eldubb440]

Personally I think I would move the one cut away from the top of the cowl & down to the bottom of that vertical area.. It would require more dolly work to fix the hard line at the cowl but it would reduce the heat going to that flat top area of the cowl..

I added to my post...I think we were typing that at the same time...... great minds lol

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I added to my post...I think we were typing that at the same time...... great minds lol

Yup, and your right, not the bottom like I said, somewhere in the middle, let those 90 degree breaks stop any possible warpage...

 

[Kern Dog]

I just got back from Reno, I went to get some A/C parts for my other car. During the drive, I also changed my mind about where to make that horizontal cut. My idea was also to make it about midway between the corner edges. I do find it interesting how when faced with a project, different people can come up with very similar ideas.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Scary... That’s why it’s often better to step back & think before you act

 

[dsd1967]

I wonder if you could weld pins on there and pull that out with a slide hammer. I know there are units made to do that, but I used the poor man's method....I use 8D nails and made an adapter for my slide hammer that is slotted to accept the nails. I've pulled some pretty severe dents out using this method and in the end I only have to grind down the places where I spot welded the pins on.

Before I would go cutting....that would be my first approach. It would take about half an hour worth of effort to see if that approach is futile before cutting.

 

[Kern Dog]

I think that I could get a lot of it out but I still have to get the leaves out of the cowl. The car sat uncovered in the man's yard since 1998. The cowl is about 1/4 full of leaves!

 

[dsd1967]

After dropping out my AC box and vent on the drivers side, I was able to get up into my cowl pretty well with a vacuum cleaner. I used a small shop vac with a small diameter suction tube and was able to bend it around the corner. I also used leather gloves to brush up the accumulated dirt and got that sucked out. Mine was full of Georgia pine needles but it cleaned up really well.

Now by opening it up like you're talking...you could better assess any rusting/pitting and also get in there with a sandblaster and some type of rust protection. If it gives you peace of mind then opening it up and welding it back shut isn't too terrible of a job....especially if you are already removing the inner fender. You will only be a few spot welds away from clearing that area out for surgery.

 

[eldubb440]

KD.........the only possible hiccup I see, is the outside chance that the driver side rail was moved a little in the accident. we'll cross that bridge when and if you get there

 

[eldubb440]

adding to the above thought, this from page 2.........

I would just replace the rail and inner , maybe both rails, inners, and core support as a unit, just cut everything that's bent off......... the hood and fenders, will dictate everything

I'm great at going way overboard; but this is also an option........ more so if the driver side were also bent

KD.........on the donor clip, measure from the front of the driver side rail diagonally back a point on the T-bar cross member, like where the passenger side rail meets........ then compare it with the car

it's probably spot on, but if it's significantly different, you got to investigate

 

[Kern Dog]

After I get the A/C lines ran in my red one, I'll pull this car into the shop and set it up on jackstands. With that, I'll have both cars in the same building so measurements will be easy to compare. I'll bring the stub down from the hill and have it nearby as well. I'd prefer to save the stub for my red car if I ever suffer the misfortune of a collision bad enough to need it. I'll just use it for the purposes of comparison on this car.
I have frame rails and a core support from a '68 Satellite station wagon that are bare without aprons. I'd rather use those. I have fender aprons from yet another car. I suspect that you are right when you wrote how I am over-thinking this. It may become clearer once I get stuff stripped out of the way.
I was thinking of how when someone posts here or elsewhere asking for help....How some responders are SO confident in their responses and still the OP hesitates to take the advice. Often times, I am the one giving advice about something that I have had experience with. This type of work is a step beyond what I have done before so I am now the guy that is slow to accept the advice!
Son of a bitch....I didn't want to be THAT guy!

 

[1 Wild R/T]

LOL.... At least your brave enough to get in there & get it done... And smart enough to think about the how & why...