Procharged 440?

[HYRDGOON]

You can run more compression with water/meth and your adding another fuel.With water/meth its like running 110 octane fuel in your car on pump gas.you can run an intercooler with it but that takes a lot of space.I run the snow performance boost juice. Its 49%methanal and 51% water.
I recommend the Aeromotive myself. whatever regulator you use make sure you run -10 return line. I screwed up and ran-8 return and had to put a bigger regulator to fix it.

I know some people just run windshield washer fluid instead of the boost juice.... My big question.... How much gets you how far?? How often will you need to fill the reservoir?

 

[Average Joe]

You can run windshield washer fluid.Only the blue washer fluid!!!It,s connected to a pressure switch so it only comes on under boost.normal driving your not using it. I just filled mine I have a five gallon fuel cell.I will let you know how long it goes when I get back to testing and cruzing.I have a friend that has a supercharged corvette with water/meth he runs his off his 1 gallon windshield washer box. he only filled it twice over the summer.

 

[HYRDGOON]

You can run more compression with water/meth and your adding another fuel.With water/meth its like running 110 octane fuel in your car on pump gas.you can run an intercooler with it but that takes a lot of space.I run the snow performance boost juice. Its 49%methanal and 51% water.
I recommend the Aeromotive myself. whatever regulator you use make sure you run -10 return line. I screwed up and ran-8 return and had to put a bigger regulator to fix it.

You can run windshield washer fluid.Only the blue washer fluid!!!It,s connected to a pressure switch so it only comes on under boost.normal driving your not using it. I just filled mine I have a five gallon fuel cell.I will let you know how long it goes when I get back to testing and cruzing.I have a friend that has a supercharged corvette with water/meth he runs his off his 1 gallon windshield washer box. he only filled it twice over the summer.

The aeromotive is the one I was thinking too (even stored in my Summit "wish list" for some time now... do you have a different system than the fuel log and return in C&S diagram?

I was worried of topping the water/meth up all the time to the point of it becoming annoying.... twice over the summer is nothing on a gallon... and you have a 5 gallon! that's the way to do it! "water/meth its like running 110 octane fuel in your car on pump gas" - that really says enough to convince me

 

[Average Joe]

Its a little different but same principal.My fuel system is mixed.I have a Magna Fuel pump and a Aeromotive regulator with the blue -6 lines to the carb.The C&S system is a matched Holley system built on the fuel log.Easy install other than running the fuel lines.If they sell you a package that's less than buying separate components that would be a good way to go.There system will work great on your car.I got my fuel system from the supercharger store and ended up selling the carb and running the C&S.The car runs better with the C&S carb.I will take some detailed pics of my water/Meth and fuel system and post them.

 

[HYRDGOON]

Thanks Joe! Detailed pics of the water/meth system and any details on which system you're using would be really helpful

So much good information coming together in this thread

Mike


I don't think there's any way I'm not doing water meth!

From Snow Performance Website the (new) stage 2 boost cooler (sku 210)



Unlock 50-80HP on your boosted vehicle while decreasing your air temps by up to 150 degrees! The all new Snow Performance Stage 2 Boost Cooler® water-methanol injection system comes fully revamped in 2015 for all boosted (turbocharged/supercharged) vehicles and uses a progressive gauge style controller that proportionally injects more or less according to boost pressure. Start and full points are adjustable for engagement and delivery curve to match what the engine requires. Proportionally injecting according to boost pressure gives an accurate delivery of water-methanol and allows cooling and performance improvements over a wide range for improved drivability. Taking it one step further, the Stage 2 has the ability to progressively command 2 Hyper-Sonic™ Nozzles independently of one another. This sophisticated dual stage injection management yields the highest increases in HP and cooling along all stages of the engine allowing you to greatly increase the boost & timing of your vehicle safely. Proven to deliver 50-80 HP and cool inlet temps up to 150 degrees! The VC-50 comes with a dual 7 color OLED screen and displays boost, percentage of injection, low level, and secondary nozzle activation directly on the screen. Complete with our industry leading Snow Performance 300 PSI UHO pump and Hypersonic Nozzles™, the Stage 2 promises to deliver the best atomization and power available for your boosted vehicle.

 

[Dreadl0ck]

I'm NOT going to use wather/meth injection on my build since it's a huge annoyance to top it up all the time (or the fear of forgetting to do so). I had the snow kit in the magnum and got rid of it in favor of an IC setup to keep it maintenance free. 5 gallon is a BIG tank and I don't have anywhere to put it to be honest.

But that's just me ;)

 

[HYRDGOON]

I'm NOT going to use wather/meth injection on my build since it's a huge annoyance to top it up all the time (or the fear of forgetting to do so). I had the snow kit in the magnum and got rid of it in favor of an IC setup to keep it maintenance free. 5 gallon is a BIG tank and I don't have anywhere to put it to be honest.

But that's just me ;)

I totally get what you're saying Dreadl0ck especially because you've already had experience with it. I'll still run an IC but really like the sounds of what I hear with water/meth. Worse case I'm topping up a reservoir with some blue juice every time I fill the gas tank I think I can live with that. I guess right now my thought process especially since my compression is on the high side is that if I can add another safe guard that increases performance for the inconvenience akin to filling a washer fluid jug I think I'd be all over it

I'm also looking to Joe's feedback once he's able to put more miles on the car

- - - Updated - - -

Some Procharger Inspiration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQVNZYfmotI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwkSet8sdmI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUfoyZWr7kk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpNUxuXMqdk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Ud-GIV6gs

 

[HYRDGOON]

Stealing some pics and explanations from the HOTROD article in regards to the water meth installation:



To aid in running high boost and power output on pump premium gas, the optional water/methanol injection system from The Supercharger Store was mounted to the inlet side of the compressor. The comprehensive system comes with a pressure switch, anti-siphon valve, a pump, tank, and all of the required hoses and fittings.



When activated by a boost-referenced switch, the water-injection nozzle sprays a fine mist of cooling water directly into the compressor inlet. The effect is charge cooling. A cooler charge makes more power and reduces the tendency to detonate, while detonation suppression is further augmented by the introduction of water to the combustion process.



The water-injection kit is complete with a fuel cell to hold the fluid, a high-pressure pump, the pressure switch, a check valve, and all of the tubing is supplied with quick-disconnect fittings. Its all there, and we had it quickly rigged for dyno duty.



Various blends of water and methanol can be substituted for straight water. An easy way to get an appropriate blend of methanol/water is to use windshield washer fluid, as recommended by The Supercharger Store. Formulations vary in percentages and for winter/summer grades. Check the product data sheet or label for the contents, or get a recommendation on brands from The Supercharger Store.

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0604-440-mopar-engine-build/#ixzz3Y9VQQkom
Follow us: @HotRodMagazine on Twitter | HotRodMag on Facebook

 

[Dreadl0ck]

If it's compression you're worried about - get one of those wedged copper gaskets - only heard great things about them. As I stated previously - I'll go the "fuel which name shouldn't be mentioned" route

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Thanks to both you guys for all the info being shared on water/meth injection, good conversation to have going. I'm still planning on running the fmic by itself though, as I don't really see 8 intercooled psi on basically a warmed over 440 (and maybe spacer gaskets) having any issues with iat's and detonation.. but in something like Joe's case making power numbers like that I can see how it'd be needed. In any case since I'm going efi I'll be able to see where the iat's are actually at, and if it's a problem I definitely won't mind adding water/meth at that point.

Got the first few pieces of my efi setup rolling in! Hoping to have my ecu in the next month or so

View attachment 253838

Also here are those pictures I was talking about goon, see how they just have that single idler/tensioner pulley set up? I was planning on something like that, but that's why I asked if there's any added benefit to that sprung swing-arm style one you're talking about using and is on Joes setup ?

If it's compression you're worried about - get one of those wedged copper gaskets - only heard great things about them. As I stated previously - I'll go the "fuel which name shouldn't be mentioned" route

Lol! "That damned Plymouth's runnin on corn?!"

But yeah especially in your case the cooling effects of the E85 will be great, basically have built-in water injection haha

 

[HYRDGOON]

To be honest I know little about the "fuel which name shouldn't be mentioned" as we don't really have it in Canada. We have advisories that our regular (87 and 89 Octane) fuels "may contain up to 10% ethanol" and our premium fuel has none.

The Flatout gaskets are on my list of possibilities but if I do drop any compression I think it may just be down to 9.5:1 based on what I've seen/read from Joe and Hemirunner and given I'm running relatively low boost.

I have read that E85 is good for detonation and ideal for boosted motors so it makes complete sense! Is that what you ran in the magnum?

 

[Dreadl0ck]

Well the octane rating of the E85 is equivalent to 102 octane (euro way of measuring) so 107 or so for you americans so yes - the roadrunner will be running on corn ;)

The magnum was as well and it did amazing things for how aggressive you could go on the ignition ;) and it's half priced compared to gas. Win win. But lose on the MPG lol.

Hey speed, I still need some more info on how you're planning putting your drive belt for the blower. On the crank? I got a fan there today but since I have electric fan too - this could be used right?

And what are you using for crank trigger wheel? I know both MSD and Edelbrock has the crank sensors needed, but I can't really find more info on the topic.

- - - Updated - - -

And yea, I was thinking about the snow kit you guys are looking at - how the hell do you tune for the meth injection?

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Hey goon I'm having a hell of a time finding any info on the swing arm vs static pulley topic, but the best I can figure I would thing the static pulley would be less prone to slippage if anything. I'm just considering which would be easier to make lol Joe, any insight on this?

And dreadlock, yeah I'm planning on piggybacking it off the crank by machining my own spacer to put the blower pulley out in front of the stock crank pulley (in theory lol). I currently have a mechanical fan as well but I'll definitely be looking to go electric in the interest of space.

For my crank trigger I'm using a ford edis style 36-1 wheel and sensor. The megasquirt ecu I'll be using has support for a bunch of different factory trigger patterns and this one will cost a fraction of what I'd pay for an aftermarket setup. Just have to adapt/weld the trigger wheel to my factory crank pulley, and fabricate a little bracket to bolt to the timing cover and hold the sensor

I honestly have no idea what effect water/meth injection has on tuning lol, I don't really plan on running it so I haven't researched it. Since it's injected into the air charge way ahead of the fuel as a source of cooling, I'm not sure that you would have to change anything. But like I say, I haven't researched it so I really have no idea haha

 

[Dreadl0ck]

What damper are you using?

 

[Average Joe]

Hey goon I'm having a hell of a time finding any info on the swing arm vs static pulley topic, but the best I can figure I would thing the static pulley would be less prone to slippage if anything. I'm just considering which would be easier to make lol Joe, any insight on this?

And dreadlock, yeah I'm planning on piggybacking it off the crank by machining my own spacer to put the blower pulley out in front of the stock crank pulley (in theory lol). I currently have a mechanical fan as well but I'll definitely be looking to go electric in the interest of space.

For my crank trigger I'm using a ford edis style 36-1 wheel and sensor. The megasquirt ecu I'll be using has support for a bunch of different factory trigger patterns and this one will cost a fraction of what I'd pay for an aftermarket setup. Just have to adapt/weld the trigger wheel to my factory crank pulley, and fabricate a little bracket to bolt to the timing cover and hold the sensor

I honestly have no idea what effect water/meth injection has on tuning lol, I don't really plan on running it so I haven't researched it. Since it's injected into the air charge way ahead of the fuel as a source of cooling, I'm not sure that you would have to change anything. But like I say, I haven't researched it so I really have no idea haha

The static is strong.We had to crank the $hit out of my swing style tensioner to keep it from slipping. But if you drill and tap into your bracket and put a idler pulley close to the supercharger pulley and get the belt to wrap 3/4 around the you can use a tensioner off of any modern vehicle and it will work without slipping.My belt only wraps a little over half way around.

- - - Updated - - -

Stealing some pics and explanations from the HOTROD article in regards to the water meth installation:

View attachment 253811

To aid in running high boost and power output on pump premium gas, the optional water/methanol injection system from The Supercharger Store was mounted to the inlet side of the compressor. The comprehensive system comes with a pressure switch, anti-siphon valve, a pump, tank, and all of the required hoses and fittings.

View attachment 253812

When activated by a boost-referenced switch, the water-injection nozzle sprays a fine mist of cooling water directly into the compressor inlet. The effect is charge cooling. A cooler charge makes more power and reduces the tendency to detonate, while detonation suppression is further augmented by the introduction of water to the combustion process.

View attachment 253813

The water-injection kit is complete with a fuel cell to hold the fluid, a high-pressure pump, the pressure switch, a check valve, and all of the tubing is supplied with quick-disconnect fittings. Its all there, and we had it quickly rigged for dyno duty.

View attachment 253814

Various blends of water and methanol can be substituted for straight water. An easy way to get an appropriate blend of methanol/water is to use windshield washer fluid, as recommended by The Supercharger Store. Formulations vary in percentages and for winter/summer grades. Check the product data sheet or label for the contents, or get a recommendation on brands from The Supercharger Store.

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/mopp-0604-440-mopar-engine-build/#ixzz3Y9VQQkom
Follow us: @HotRodMagazine on Twitter | HotRodMag on Facebook

This is the system I have Mike. I did change the spray nozzle location so I could get a straighter shot on my air inlet. I have no room in my engine compartment LOL.

 

[Dreadl0ck]

A bunch of guys locally are using the stock location of washer fluid bottle and just reroute it - that might fit?

 

[HYRDGOON]

This is interesting:

http://www.atiracing.com/superpulley/

 

[furryfrog]

This is interesting:

http://www.atiracing.com/superpulley/

Hmm, that is interesting.

I have been mulling over turbo(s) or centrifugal setup. A big question I have is reliability of the centrifugal on a street car, for example the d1sc? I seem to find a lot of used ones listed online that "just came back from rebuild".
I have had turbo cars, screw type supercharger cars, but have no experience or no friends that have ran a centrifugal, since I am considering trying one out I thought I would ask here. How reliable are they on a street car, mild boost, 8-10 psi? How drivable are they with a blow thru carb setup?, throttle response ect?

 

[Hemirunner]

The smaller blowers are very reliable and drivable. When you get to the F series blowers they are insanely loud on a big HP combo and make long hauls really annoying. If set up right, throttle response is instant. The SBF we did goes from idle to John Force burnout in a fraction of a second.

- - - Updated - - -

This is interesting:

http://www.atiracing.com/superpulley/

I'm waiting for the "Mad Max" version of this!!

 

[Budnicks]

Damn interesting for sure, helps for freewheeling & less backed up boost & pop-off valve issues
especially with boost when getting out of the throttle, cool idea for damn sure

- - - Updated - - -

This is interesting:

http://www.atiracing.com/superpulley/

Thanks for posting that...