I have the same Classic Air setup as you and the belt screeches for a second or two at startup then goes away. I've adjusted the tension a few times with no change. Do you remember if you tightened or loosened the tension to eliminate it?
Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger
- Thread starter Kern Dog
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Congrats on firing up the engine. Sorry to hear about the leaks and such but with all your free time now I expect you'll have everything in working order by Friday!
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The belt screech is gone for now. I’m sure that as the belt stretches, it will need another adjustment to stay quiet.
I’m out looking for oil pan gaskets. I have two cork ones at home but I prefer the hard fibrous ones. Summit has them but I wanted to do this today. I’m checking a few local stores to see what I can find.
I’m out looking for oil pan gaskets. I have two cork ones at home but I prefer the hard fibrous ones. Summit has them but I wanted to do this today. I’m checking a few local stores to see what I can find.
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I am A mover and a shaker, friend. If I have the parts, I dig right in.
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I know this is "after the fact"...but for regular pan gaskets I've had awesome luck with the pink 'Superformance' ones. The drawback is they have to come from Mancini or Hughes which takes a few days to deliver.
I recently re-did my Summit-branded one-piece windage tray/gasket. This time, I did what others have done which is fill in the dimples on the oil pan rail with ultra-gray (troweled everything flat with an old credit card). I made sure to thinly smear the ultra gray over the entire pan rail sealing area. (Did I mention the word thin?!)
I then smeared a thin coat of that non-hardening Permatex sealer crap (#2 I think?) on the block surface, let everything set up for about an hour, and then assembled just slightly snug. Tightened the bolts the rest of the way the next day.
Zero weeps..yeehaw!
Last time, I smeared sealer on the rubber 'gasket strips' on the plastic tray but I still ended up getting some small drips. My pan is a Milodon with the factory-style dimples.
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Thanks.
I have used the Mopar Performance black gaskets and Fel Pro ones as well. Some members have reported success with the cork ones. I don't recall the last time I tried cork for the oil pan on this car.
The last iteration of this engine leaked at the pan near the front. I think the front seal was the problem though, I also had a RH valve cover leak. In most cases, the engine didn't leak while just idling or light cruising. It leaked when I drove it hard or at freeway speeds. This rear main leak is throwing a mist as the engine just idles. I would expect it to be far worse if I drove it.
I have the Milodon 6 quart HEMI pan too. I had one of those plastic windage trays that leaked. It turned out that this Milodon pan is 1/4" shorter overall front to rear and the sealing ribs on the plastic windage tray didn't seal against the pan.
First pictures are the Miolodon pan:
These next pictures are a stock "402" pan:
I went back to a steel windage tray and gasket sandwich last year.
I have used the Mopar Performance black gaskets and Fel Pro ones as well. Some members have reported success with the cork ones. I don't recall the last time I tried cork for the oil pan on this car.
The last iteration of this engine leaked at the pan near the front. I think the front seal was the problem though, I also had a RH valve cover leak. In most cases, the engine didn't leak while just idling or light cruising. It leaked when I drove it hard or at freeway speeds. This rear main leak is throwing a mist as the engine just idles. I would expect it to be far worse if I drove it.
I have the Milodon 6 quart HEMI pan too. I had one of those plastic windage trays that leaked. It turned out that this Milodon pan is 1/4" shorter overall front to rear and the sealing ribs on the plastic windage tray didn't seal against the pan.
First pictures are the Miolodon pan:
These next pictures are a stock "402" pan:
I went back to a steel windage tray and gasket sandwich last year.
Wow that shorter pan is crazy! Mine (also the 6-qt) matched up much better than that. I have seen though, Milodon's quality has gone downhill in the last few years. Whatever it takes to stay dry is good in my book..I hate leaks.
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The car's just sweatin' a little horsepower...
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The oil pan and windage tray are out. There was some slight silvery sheen to the oil. I’m hoping that is just the rings, cylinder walls and bearings “ breaking in” and not a cam and lifter problem.
I did install the seal the right way.
The side O-ring seals either slipped out of position when I pulled the retainer or they were that way with it in place.
They look like they shrunk but they might have broken off.
The lower half of the seal sits flush on one side….
But sits up on the other.
Looking UP, the sealing lip is off of the serrated part of the crank.
Is that right?
It seems to me like the serrated section should be forward of the sealing lip.
I did install the seal the right way.
The side O-ring seals either slipped out of position when I pulled the retainer or they were that way with it in place.
The lower half of the seal sits flush on one side….
But sits up on the other.
Looking UP, the sealing lip is off of the serrated part of the crank.
Is that right?
It seems to me like the serrated section should be forward of the sealing lip.
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The upper half came out easily.
The seal halves look almost identical to the new set that came from a 440 gasket set. Like Randy stated, it may not have been the main seal but instead…the side seals.
I replaced the O rings when I first put this retainer in but the O rings were from a kit that I got from an old timer. He is notoriously C H E A P so now I suspect it was some Harbor Freight O ring assortment.
I ordered two pan gaskets from Summit. I’m going to the NAPA store to get some new O rings. I need to clean the pan rail and the windage tray. I used “ The Right Stuff” on it so it wanted to stick in place.
The upper half was oiled and slipped back in.
I’ll going to pull the oil pickup in case segments got sucked into it.
The seal halves look almost identical to the new set that came from a 440 gasket set. Like Randy stated, it may not have been the main seal but instead…the side seals.
I replaced the O rings when I first put this retainer in but the O rings were from a kit that I got from an old timer. He is notoriously C H E A P so now I suspect it was some Harbor Freight O ring assortment.
I ordered two pan gaskets from Summit. I’m going to the NAPA store to get some new O rings. I need to clean the pan rail and the windage tray. I used “ The Right Stuff” on it so it wanted to stick in place.
The upper half was oiled and slipped back in.
I’ll going to pull the oil pickup in case segments got sucked into it.
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I got some O rings and slipped them in, then tried to install the retainer. I had a thin coat of "Right Stuff" on it. The retainer wouldn't go into place without pushing the O rings out of position. I tried 2 or 3 times. Then I tried just the O rings and a thin film of assembly lube to slide it in easier. Same thing. Screw it....I cleaned it up then put a bead of Right Stuff on the top and sides and installed it.
If I had a stock seal retainer, I would have used it. Years back, I filled the side voids with RTV and it sealed well. I took a thin popsicle stick and smeared some Right Stuff on the outside of the retainer to block seam.
Jigsaw is set up that way and that engine doesn't leak as far as I can tell.
If I had a stock seal retainer, I would have used it. Years back, I filled the side voids with RTV and it sealed well. I took a thin popsicle stick and smeared some Right Stuff on the outside of the retainer to block seam.
Jigsaw is set up that way and that engine doesn't leak as far as I can tell.
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Fill the retainer bolt recesses level with the pan rail before installing the pan. It's a place that oil can find its way under the gasket that mimics a leaking rear seal.
Outsider
Well-Known Member
I've been doing the main seals since the 70s with good success. The old rope ones are best installed with the crank out, and take fitting and trimming; tip, leave each end of the seal 1/8" long. The old asbestos side seals; soak overnight in mineral oil then install.
The new rubber side seals; dry against the housing and lightly wipe the block sides with oil, install, tighten, wipe the outside with alcohol and silicone the back outside edges.
Modern rubber lip seals; most important, push seal offset from the parting centerline 1/2", lightly grease lip, put a dab of silicone on ends, install housing.
By the way, if you come to the point and need to try a stock seal housing and don't have one, let me know and I'll send you one down for your retirement recognition, as I have a shoe box full of them.
The new rubber side seals; dry against the housing and lightly wipe the block sides with oil, install, tighten, wipe the outside with alcohol and silicone the back outside edges.
Modern rubber lip seals; most important, push seal offset from the parting centerline 1/2", lightly grease lip, put a dab of silicone on ends, install housing.
By the way, if you come to the point and need to try a stock seal housing and don't have one, let me know and I'll send you one down for your retirement recognition, as I have a shoe box full of them.
On a stock seal retainer grind these 2 nubs. They sometimes hit the 5 cap.
Again, this is probably 'after the fact', and I know everyone has their way of doing the rear mains but I never use those side. I prefer to fill in the slots with ultra gray and let it set up for a bit, then install the rest of the way as normal. Zero leaks ever doing it that way, with 'Viton' seals. KK made an excellent point about filling in the bolt recesses too.
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Dang Summit.....They are just over the hill from me but estimate delivery 2 days after I ordered?
I know...I am retired now and I have the time but when I encounter a snag like this, I want to dig in and fix the problem right away.
I was worried a bit about the shimmer in the oil but after reading a few threads online, in most cases, the shimmer is just fine metal particles from the cylinder walls and rings seating, bearing material wearing in and the break in oil & zinc. If all is normal, that will not be evident in the third oil change.
Regarding the hydraulic issue....The power steering not getting much assist: I'm sure the lines are fine and that the rebuilt pump isn't to blame. The belt wasn't slipping, the pulley turned freely, the pulley is straight. Maybe the fluid stops moving as it reaches the HB unit and the steering box is getting almost nothing. I don't feel like spending the money to buy another power steering pump but I may if it comes down to it. Sometimes, that free offer costs you more than the stuff that you buy outright.
It may perform great. That remains to be seen. I'm still curious about how the car would feel with the bigger brakes and the 15/16" manual master cylinder setup, especially with the pushrod hole drilled above the stock one. Better leverage and all.
I had the 15/16" manual MC in place before getting the offer on this hydroboost unit.
I know...I am retired now and I have the time but when I encounter a snag like this, I want to dig in and fix the problem right away.
I was worried a bit about the shimmer in the oil but after reading a few threads online, in most cases, the shimmer is just fine metal particles from the cylinder walls and rings seating, bearing material wearing in and the break in oil & zinc. If all is normal, that will not be evident in the third oil change.
Regarding the hydraulic issue....The power steering not getting much assist: I'm sure the lines are fine and that the rebuilt pump isn't to blame. The belt wasn't slipping, the pulley turned freely, the pulley is straight. Maybe the fluid stops moving as it reaches the HB unit and the steering box is getting almost nothing. I don't feel like spending the money to buy another power steering pump but I may if it comes down to it. Sometimes, that free offer costs you more than the stuff that you buy outright.
It may perform great. That remains to be seen. I'm still curious about how the car would feel with the bigger brakes and the 15/16" manual master cylinder setup, especially with the pushrod hole drilled above the stock one. Better leverage and all.
I had the 15/16" manual MC in place before getting the offer on this hydroboost unit.
Well I can't wait for the after action report...As always, best of luck to ya brother!
Power75
Member
Going way back to quoting post #39. I am compiling parts for an upcoming build very similar to yours and I have looked at the piston chart on 440 source and it shows 9.28 c.r. with the 493 and 84 cc heads and the .039 gasket. am I missing something, maybe you have smaller cc heads and I misread. I thought you mentioned 84 cc edelbrocks. and the 24cc dished pistons. I am looking for the right combo to get me around 9.6 to 10 to 1 tops. I've got 84cc Edelbrock heads. Also, would like to thank you for the detail you have gone to on this and other threads, I am starting on a 69 charger, 493, tremec project myself and the trans install has helped me tremendously, particularly the offset pins alignment section.
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