Road rage study

[j-c-c-62]

That law was pointless. It would not be enforced.
They already have a law they can enforce. Failure to Yield. That law exists in some form in every state. Blocking traffic in the left lane counts.
New laws just lead to cops enforcing them stupidly and fining people they shouldn't.

Everyone can hope and dream that the cops will pull over granny as she does 40mph in the left lane. But they won't. They will pull you over, at 3a.m., when the road is 100% empty and you are on the left side because it was raining and the right side was water logged and bumpy. Because the law says left lane is only for passing.

We don't need more pointless laws to be abused. We need the ones we have enforced. Count your blessings the law was vetoed.

It was not pointless, but it would send a message, and likely as you suggest, likely only to be ignored by LEO and drivers.
Not sure how this veto deserves any blessing from anyone.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I have seen the exact opposite.
If we had enough law enforcement, AND
They actually cared about something besides speeding,

This would not be an issue. As you say, visibility is the deturent!
In WI, the state troopers will pick a corridor and patrol it heavy, in an undisclosed rotation. For a week or two. After one day, people figure it out and it is normal for the duration, and maybe a week or two after. All the troopers need to do is drive around on the corridor.
Doesn't stop the tailgating though, because they will never be pulled over for it.

The highway I live off of is a main weekend warrior "up nort'" route. Twice a year it is patrolled heavily. You can tell, because people will keep it to around 60. (55mph speed limit)
The rest? HAHAHA, people will do 70 or 75. Or more. Now, I am not one to care much how fast people go in the boonies if they know the road and what/who lives on it etc. But this road has a driveway every 300 yards and a day care, and a few other stops along the way. People doing 85 are truly endangering others here. Normally, it is people driving a car too wimpy to pass on the two lane, so when they get impeded by someone doing 62-63(the magic "less then 9mph over so ticket is piddly") they will drive so close you can only see their face in their windshield. No lights, bumper, grill, even hood. No brake check would be needed, just let off the gas for half a second and there would be contact probably.

If there were enough state patrol to drive the highway once every three weeks, it wouldn't be like that.
Instead, when it gets that bad I drive my tow rig to work for a week or two until it calms down. I don't worry about idiots as much driving my 8300lb truck. Whats the worst they will do? Run into the pintle hook in my class 5 hitch?

I had two old ladies rear end my 2500 Ram with a pintle hitch while I was sitting at a red light on the phone. The person on the other end asked, "what was that?"
I said I don't know, didn't have a scratch nor a dent. I drove away. Both of the other cars were totaled, nobody hurt.
Scrore 2 for the pintle hitch.

 

[Detective D]

It was not pointless, but it would send a message, and likely as you suggest, likely only to be ignored by LEO and drivers.
Not sure how this veto deserves any blessing from anyone.

Redundant laws only open the door for abuses.
The message you hope would be sent would be forgotten in less then 2 weeks, and then the new redundant law would be enforced in an unintended way to the detriment of good citizens. It's not that hard to understand.
Michgan has the law you lament was vetoed. In the UP, at 3am, in an entirely empty side of town in the UP(and I mean empty) my brother in law got a tcket for driving in the left lane to avoid deep water and big potholes in the right lane.
"The left lane is for passing only." cost him $250. In the middle of the night where he and the cop were the only two cars within 3 miles.
Redundant laws are pointless and lead to abuses and more redundant laws. More government(laws) is not the answer to everything. If people are dicks near you, call your local sheriff and explain and ask what he will do about it. He already has the tools to do something, if he chooses to.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Redundant laws only open the door for abuses.
The message you hope would be sent would be forgotten in less then 2 weeks, and then the new redundant law would be enforced in an unintended way to the detriment of good citizens. It's not that hard to understand.
Michgan has the law you lament was vetoed. In the UP, at 3am, in an entirely empty side of town in the UP(and I mean empty) my brother in law got a tcket for driving in the left lane to avoid deep water and big potholes in the right lane.
"The left lane is for passing only." cost him $250. In the middle of the night where he and the cop were the only two cars within 3 miles.
Redundant laws are pointless and lead to abuses and more redundant laws. More government(laws) is not the answer to everything. If people are dicks near you, call your local sheriff and explain and ask what he will do about it. He already has the tools to do something, if he chooses to.

You haven't made the case redundant laws are abusive on merit.
The example you noted was abusive on officers' discretion, and the reason we have judges, and the law is lacking and can be improved.
My example, I unknowingly ran a red light, but safely, with a LEO in the lane sitting next to me. I was driving my 62 Red 413 Polara 500.
It was a flashing red light, that without any signage or warning, became a solid red light. Who watches a flashing red light continuously in heavy traffic?
I was 16, and took it to court. Told my story, Judge asked officer did I make my turn safely, he answered yes, Judge dismissed it, Officer started to argue with the Judge that I had run a red light, Judge told him to be quiet or he would be held in contempt.

 

[not so famous bob]

J-c-c-62
I hate to say it but it wont work. They implemented the same law in Oklahoma a few years ago. No detectable change in behavior. The police must enforce the law for it to be effective. Same with cellphones snd driving, no enforcement.

yeah but , if I`m driving faster than the speed limit , passing cars in the middle lane , why should I kick the cruise off and pull over for anyone ?
unless they have flashing blue and red lights ...

 

[j-c-c-62]

yeah but , if I`m driving faster than the speed limit , passing cars in the middle lane , why should I kick the cruise off and pull over for anyone ?
unless they have flashing blue and red lights ...

Golden rule?

 

[not so famous bob]

Golden rule?

zip..

 

[Charged440]

Here in the Chicago area, it appears that police have all but stopped enforcing traffic laws, with the exception of an occasional speed trap.
I have a 26 mile commute to work and the behavior I witness daily makes me cringe. I often wish I was a cop with some superpower granted me that I would have the authority to pull a license and impound a car for reckless and dangerous driving. I would revoke at least 2 licenses each morning on my 50 minute commute!
I don’t think it’ll ever get better, in fact, there was a law proposed recently that would ban cops from pulling over drivers for most driving infractions because ticketing was inequitable or some such nonsense. I don’t care what “group” bad drivers are more often from, I just want bad driving cracked down on! In fact I have no idea who the worst drivers I see are, I just see cars weaving in and out of traffic cutting people off etc too fast to see who’s behind the wheel.
I stay in the center lanes usually driving 10-15 mph over the speed limit, yet almost always have someone tailgating me. So close I usually can’t see their headlights in my rear view mirror.
In my younger years with higher testosterone levels, I’d probably have gotten more aggressive, now I just I just white knuckle it as I loaf along at 75 mph.
In the recent past I sometimes used to choose to wash my windshield when someone was riding my bumper. It always was pretty funny looking at my mirror and seeing them turn their wipers on to the clear off my washer fluid, but that might set off a road rager and turn ugly, so it’s been a while since I did that.

Part of that big push is to remove equipment violations from things you can get pulled over for, including expired registration. Emagine their surprise when inevitably people stop buying plate stickers. Worse yet, they want to make it so if you do happen to get pulled over, any drugs or guns they find would be off limits as far as being prosecuted for them. Basically equating it to illegal search and seizure.

 

[YY1]

I would have thought "waiting to turn right until I'm 25 feet from you at 60 MPH" would have at least made the list.

Rampant in FL.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I would have thought "waiting to turn right until I'm 25 feet from you at 60 MPH" would have at least made the list.

Rampant in FL.

It is a sign of the times we cannot civilly even agree on what a "stop" really means.
Each to their own seems to be par for the course.

 

[YY1]

I'm talking about people that sit at an intersection or even a non signaled apron and wait until there's not enough room before they pull out.

 

[Detective D]

You haven't made the case redundant laws are abusive on merit.
The example you noted was abusive on officers' discretion, and the reason we have judges, and the law is lacking and can be improved.
My example, I unknowingly ran a red light, but safely, with a LEO in the lane sitting next to me. I was driving my 62 Red 413 Polara 500.
It was a flashing red light, that without any signage or warning, became a solid red light. Who watches a flashing red light continuously in heavy traffic?
I was 16, and took it to court. Told my story, Judge asked officer did I make my turn safely, he answered yes, Judge dismissed it, Officer started to argue with the Judge that I had run a red light, Judge told him to be quiet or he would be held in contempt.

If the law in Michigan didn't exist:
This would have never happened to my brother in law.
ALSO
THEY CAN STILL PULL SOMEONE OVER FOR FAILURE TO YEILD FOR BLOCKING THE LEFT LANE. Right now they can, 25 years ago they could, tomorrow still can.

Oh and BTW, the LEO that handed out these tickets, yes tickets, did so for 9 weeks straight as the clerk told my brother in law when he went to go pay the ticket. "you can go to court" she said sarcastically, "but the last 3 paid their ticket after anyway."

I guess I prefer less laws and enforcing the good ones over more meaningless, ripe to abuse fluff laws that make a few people feel better for two weeks.
If you have an issue with traffic in the left lane by you, call your Sheriff and ask him what he will do about it as he already has the tools to do something about it!

 

[j-c-c-62]

I'm talking about people that sit at an intersection or even a non signaled apron and wait until there's not enough room before they pull out.

Sorry, I don't think that is overtly intentional, they are inept drivers, other that, "well you should not be speeding in the first place" is their retort I suspect
I am sure I have been accused of what you mention in past few years, but I bet few bother to see my side.
I live in a one traffic light small rural town. Next city is 30 miles away. the speed limit outside of town is 60, and nobody drives 60.
The street I live on empties onto the main drag as one leaves and enters town.
The speed limit at my street has increased from 35 to 40 mph when leaving town, and only a few yards further out its marked to 50, 1 mile further its 60.
The problem is for me, everybody is accelerating coming out of town from a red light accelerating to 35 zone then to 40 zone to 50 zone to 60 zone and beyond and up to 70, all at different rates and times.
It's really hard to judge how much a clot of cars all spread out is going to accelerate and how fast they will accelerate, ignoring the fact nearly everyone is already above the speed limit.
There are only two more intersecting cross streets after the 50 mph speed limit when leaving town.
I have asked the city to simply move the 50 mph limit a couple hundred yards out to the city limit, but they are clueless.
The sheriff often sets up a speed trap at night outside of town to catch those entering at 60 into the 50, but no more enforcement than that.
It's a new road, and somebody is going to get creamed one day.

 

[j-c-c-62]

If the law in Michigan didn't exist:
This would have never happened to my brother in law.
ALSO
THEY CAN STILL PULL SOMEONE OVER FOR FAILURE TO YEILD FOR BLOCKING THE LEFT LANE. Right now they can, 25 years ago they could, tomorrow still can.

Oh and BTW, the LEO that handed out these tickets, yes tickets, did so for 9 weeks straight as the clerk told my brother in law when he went to go pay the ticket. "you can go to court" she said sarcastically, "but the last 3 paid their ticket after anyway."

I guess I prefer less laws and enforcing the good ones over more meaningless, ripe to abuse fluff laws that make a few people feel better for two weeks.
If you have an issue with traffic in the left lane by you, call your Sheriff and ask him what he will do about it as he already has the tools to do something about it!

I don't know if they need traffic to give you a ticket for blocking traffic.

Similar to parking in one of 12 empty handicap parking spaces when the store is closed is still chargeable I am not convinced yet this law you object to is the only reason his driving was citiable, and if he had a AH cop, he was getting a tiocket for something anyway I suspect,
If people pay the ticket because the last three did, they deserve the ticket.
I get it BTW, you don't like laws. I find laws useful as it sets the rules we all are supposed to play by. The alternative does not interest me.

 

[Detective D]

I don't know if they need traffic to give you a ticket for blocking traffic.

Similar to parking in one of 12 empty handicap parking spaces when the store is closed is still chargeable I am not convinced yet this law you object to is the only reason his driving was citiable, and if he had a AH cop, he was getting a tiocket for something anyway I suspect,
If people pay the ticket because the last three did, they deserve the ticket.
I get it BTW, you don't like laws. I find laws useful as it sets the rules we all are supposed to play by. The alternative does not interest me.

Of course they need traffic to ticket you for failure to yield. You have to have someone to yield to. Makes it a bit harder to abuse. Makes it a lot easier to argue to a judge.

Your presumptions about my brother in law are off base, and slightly annoying to be honest. Disrespectful is not adequate enough a word.
He is a law abiding citizen and works for a living like most people in the midwest. Driving the speed limit on an empty road going home in a 100% functioning properly vehicle, sober, with a clean driving record got him a ticket.
Then the CLERK told him essentially arguing the ticket to the presiding judge was pointless. SO he opted to not miss a days pay for what would turn out to be no reason in the end and paid the ticket to her to be done with it.

I LIKE LAWS JUST FINE THANK YOU. Meaningful ones that make sense and don't tread on our rights. FAILURE TO YEILD is a law, and SETS THE RULES WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO PLAY BY.
If you don't like the referee not calling the fouls in the left lane, ask the ref if he is blind and ask him when he will start.

 

[Brandy]

Not a huge issue in VERmont, there's only like a half dozen cars up here...lol. If there's more than 6 cars in any one place at a time we call that traffic, 8 cars equals gridlock...lol
As I've become older, and retired I stopped road raging because I just am not in a ******* hurry any more. I accept that people are stupid and drivers are even stupider.

 

[Brandy]

People divide their time and attention so much more than say, back in the 50's and 60's when drivers had only other occupants, the scenery and the radio to deal with. We carry the entire amassed knowledge of humankind in our pockets now and the vehicles we drive are like spaceships in comparison. It's no wonder we are acting stupid on the road. We can't concentrate on just driving the damn car.

It's gotten to be very much like driving an AH-64D Apache " LONGBOW" attack chopper. All of your senses are engaged every minute you're under power lest the damn thing try to kill you. Two or three inattentive seconds at the wrong time and your suddenly *** over tea kettle and seeing the sand rushing towards you through the window. lol. Same with cars today, you have to fiddle with so much technical **** just to operate it safely too much of your attention is used up with inside the car issues while outside the car **** is always happening that will get your *** killed.

It now takes more mental stamina and situational awareness than most people have ever had to have, or will likely ever develop.

In our old cars all you have to do is occasionally monitor a few analog gauges and enjoy the scenery...lol.

Plus, lol, if statistics are to be believed about 60% of your fellow travelers are on one drug or another, or drunk. So, there's that...

 

[Speedbird]

Yes.
The Volvo Syndrome is alive and well. Isolation from the road and others.
People their safe little environments, obvious to how fast they are moving.

Post 21 contains the most profound yet overlooked observation in this whole discussion.
I have driven a "nice" 73 A body for the last 25 years as a daily driver not only across the country.
But for the last also 16 years across one of the top 10 worst traffic/driver cities in the country 70 miles round trip to work.
It's amazing how you are treated.
People yield you and let you in to traffic.
All it takes is a smile and wave.
No worries about car jackings.
The only hand signals I ever got was the thumbs up.
I do wish they would not sneak up to me on the interstate to blow the horn in my ear though.
Think about how differently ya'll get treated when you take your classics out on the road.
It works.

Like it or not we are judged by the car you drive.
Anonymous jelly beans don't help.

 

[YY1]

Even if I'm going 50 in a 50 MPH zone (yes, it does happen), I wish I had a dollar for every time someone has sat through gap after gap, and then decided to turn in front of me, forcing me to apply a borderline panic stop brake application. Sometimes worse.

I should not need to anticipate that someone will pull out like that an reduce speed to accommodate them.
They should be expected to wait for a safe gap.

One pain point is that they have often sat through gaps long enough for a safe turn.
I can see them ahead of me.
Another is that this frequently happens when there are no cars behind me as far as can be seen.
...and a third is that more often than not, the offender does not get up to speed at anywhere near an appropriate pace for the posted speed...sometimes they do not even reach that speed...ever.

 

[MarPar]

People divide their time and attention so much more than say, back in the 50's and 60's when drivers had only other occupants, the scenery and the radio to deal with. We carry the entire amassed knowledge of humankind in our pockets now and the vehicles we drive are like spaceships in comparison. It's no wonder we are acting stupid on the road. We can't concentrate on just driving the damn car.

It's gotten to be very much like driving an AH-64D Apache " LONGBOW" attack chopper. All of your senses are engaged every minute you're under power lest the damn thing try to kill you. Two or three inattentive seconds at the wrong time and your suddenly *** over tea kettle and seeing the sand rushing towards you through the window. lol. Same with cars today, you have to fiddle with so much technical **** just to operate it safely too much of your attention is used up with inside the car issues while outside the car **** is always happening that will get your *** killed.

It now takes more mental stamina and situational awareness than most people have ever had to have, or will likely ever develop.

In our old cars all you have to do is occasionally monitor a few analog gauges and enjoy the scenery...lol.

Plus, lol, if statistics are to be believed about 60% of your fellow travelers are on one drug or another, or drunk. So, there's that...