Add the sodium carbonate slowly to the citric acid and water, spread it out (don't dump it in one spot) and in small amounts. There is quite a bit of a reaction.
Rust removal, better than evaporust and 10x cheaper..
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icetech
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Guys the active ingredient in Evaporust is Disodium EDTA a white powder mixed with water. available by whole sale chemical suppliers or ebay or amazon But citric acid is a whole lot cheaper and just as effective as evaporust in my opinion. A friend who is a chemist at work says evaporust may have changed to a newer formula called MGDAand neutralized citric acid. MGDA can be purchaed from amazon but also is very expensive
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icetech
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One thing i really hate about evaporust is you use it on 2 items and it's basically dead.. this mixture seems to live a long time soo far.
Wow, Disodium EDTA is expensive!
I've had a 5 gallon bucket of Evaporust for a while and have used it several times without issue. Although I've only used it on smaller pieces and keep it covered at all times.
Ed China from Wheeler Dealers dipped an entire Range Rover frame in Evaporust, he used just over 500 gallons. I can't even imagine how much that would cost - I'm sure he either got it for free or heavily discounted for use on his youtube channel. Here's the video:
Rishi
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Where are you getting your data? The MSDS sheets for ER I've read are vague, at best. I've been unable to confirm if ER uses disodium, or tetrasodium EDTA, or Oxalic or what.
Using a dilute nearly-neutral citric acid solution produced the following results (refer to before and after images) on a master cylinder cover. The cover was degreased and scrubbed with a wire brush, prior to 24 hours of treatment. The result still comes out dark (coated with black iron oxide) but easily cleans off if you can reach the areas with soapy water and a wire brush. Observe how the shiny surfaces (where present under the rust) are preserved. The majority of rust products using phosphoric acid (naval jelly, POR-15, EIS Rust Raider, etc.) etch and dull the shiny surfaces. Note I snapped a photo of where I cleaned the black oxide only part way, for contrast.
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Rishi one of my fellow workers has a spectro to analyze the product that's where we got he got the data. Its a few years since he did the work. Recently he felt it is methylglycinediacetic acid trisodium salt, with a reacted citric acid.
Rishi
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Nice data. Thank you.
Hey fellers the guy in the video says that using caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) with the citric acid instead of baking soda or SC works the same but does not have the reaction that floods your garage floor, has anybody tried this mix?
I normally reccomend molasses, but my buddy in Montana is worried about it attracting bears.
I normally reccomend molasses, but my buddy in Montana is worried about it attracting bears.
Rishi
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ANYTIME you mix a strong acid with a strong base, you're gonna have a violent reaction. Just dumping them together is gonna be... reactive! But if you do it slowly, a little bit at a time, it won't boil over.
Caustic soda would be my last choice, given how reactive it is. you get some powder on the back of your hand, it's gonna burn. Rinsing it off under water makes it burn more, briefly. Baking and washing sodas are much safer.
When I neutralize a 100g/1L citric acid (about 0.5M) solution with (I'm using 40g) sodium carbonate (washing soda) it takes me a good five minutes to get them mixed. My procedure is:
* mix the acid solution (100g citric acid powder to 1L water)
* add sodium carbonate 1/4-teaspoon at a time
* stir as needed and wait for the reaction to complete; the solution to turn clear (not cloudy). the cloudy is actually tiny, tiny bubbles of reaction.
* repeat, 1/4-teaspoon at a time, until all is mixed
* add 15g (1-Tablespoon) of detergent (dish soap)
* stir and enjoy
take note: this process atomizes the solution. Bubbles, tinier than champagne bubbles, go up into the air, and rain down around the area of the container where mixing is taking place. while this is still a mildly acidic solution, doing it on the kitchen table cloth (like I did the first time) may be a bad idea. Over a concrete driveway you can later hose down, or in a utility sink is ideal.
Wear gloves and eye protection, if you can. These chemicals (except for NaOH sodium hydroxide, aka caustic soda, aka lye), before, during and after mixing, are mild enough not to harm you or the environment. But don't drink it or feed it to your cat.
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OK thanks, so are you saying the sodium hydroxide will have a violent reaction too?
Rishi
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They all will. But the sodium hydroxide powder will burn you, if it gets on your skin. Burn your eyes, if even the tiniest portion of powder is in the air. It may damage a table surface if the powder is spilled and poses a cleanup challenge. The other two bases (baking and washing) don't carry these risks.
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Aha! Thanks for clarifying that I thought there must be a down side.
“methylglycinediacetic” …say that three times fast!
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Sodium hydroxide mixed with citric is sodium citrate
It's hard enough saying it one time slow.
Rishi
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come on, it's not that bad. meth-ill GLY-seen dye-***-EE-tick
unlike AWOL, (ay-dub-ehl-you-oh-ell) MGDA (em-gee-dee-ay) rolls off the tongue.
All together, now "em-gee-dee-ay"
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