Suspension setup ?

[G-man]

Ok guys. I have been in my friends 70 Charger RT/SE car 440six.

0.92 T-bars
Stock front and rear sway bar (what size would that be?)
SS springs.
KYB shocks

The SS springs are far from Harsh. So I will purchase SS springs for my car. They will be good for drag which I want and feel hard which feels no harder than any modern car you drive in. The car with 0.92 Tbars and everything... car felt pretty stout around corners and feels awesome when the car wants to go under full throttle. I wouldnt want it to be much harder than his. If I went with the 1.12 or 1.22 (lmao) T-bars I would need physiotherapy every time I get home from a drive. For the streets where the roads are lumpy and bumpy, too big T-bars would totaly suck and go against the weight transfer needed for a street/strip car.

So the things im getting are these.

0.96 T-bars

1.125 F/sway bar (no rear sway bar - looks messy n wont need it)

SS Springs (6 left side - 8 right side like friends Charger)

70/30 Bilstein custom valved shocks front and rear. Wont be bad for street and will help with straight line more. If im not happy with them I can always get them re-valved to 50/50 front and rear

So thanks for your imput also. Friend told me that if I did go with everything the biggest, if i hit a wet patch the car could skip accross the road because there is no give in anything. Like someone here stated the same thing and the suspension place down here also said the same thing. Roads are not race tracks that are flat, they got grooves hills bumps lumps etc.

Well i just gotta decide which Bushings to get through the whole car (Poly) but what grade? Do different grades add or subtract from acceleration or they only make the car feel harder and softer and have no effect on straight line?

Black = 95% which I thought about.

 

[696pack]

Ok guys. I have been in my friends 70 Charger RT/SE car 440six.

0.92 T-bars
Stock front and rear sway bar (what size would that be?)
SS springs.
KYB shocks

The SS springs are far from Harsh. So I will purchase SS springs for my car. They will be good for drag which I want and feel hard which feels no harder than any modern car you drive in. The car with 0.92 Tbars and everything... car felt pretty stout around corners and feels awesome when the car wants to go under full throttle. I wouldnt want it to be much harder than his. If I went with the 1.12 or 1.22 (lmao) T-bars I would need physiotherapy every time I get home from a drive. For the streets where the roads are lumpy and bumpy, too big T-bars would totaly suck and go against the weight transfer needed for a street/strip car.

So the things im getting are these.

0.96 T-bars

1.125 F/sway bar (no rear sway bar - looks messy n wont need it)

SS Springs (6 left side - 8 right side like friends Charger)

70/30 Bilstein custom valved shocks front and rear. Wont be bad for street and will help with straight line more. If im not happy with them I can always get them re-valved to 50/50 front and rear

So thanks for your imput also. Friend told me that if I did go with everything the biggest, if i hit a wet patch the car could skip accross the road because there is no give in anything. Like someone here stated the same thing and the suspension place down here also said the same thing. Roads are not race tracks that are flat, they got grooves hills bumps lumps etc.

Well i just gotta decide which Bushings to get through the whole car (Poly) but what grade? Do different grades add or subtract from acceleration or they only make the car feel harder and softer and have no effect on straight line?

Black = 95% which I thought about.

I am not sure about this. I know that the factory Hemi (police suspension) had a different number of leafs on each side, but I THOUGHT that the super stock springs (available through parts) were the same number on each side.

Maybe someone else will chime in on this.

 

[mr.belvedere]

it has always been the common practice to run a smaller diameter torsion bar in a drag application to aid in weight transfer. we've established that over and over, and it seems to be a practice that works.
but for some reason in my mind, when i picture a mopar launching off the line, and its nose rising quickly into the air, wouldn't a larger diameter bar assist in that? the torsion bars are basically a preloaded spring that want to push the wheels down and the body up. it makes sense to me in my mind and on paper, but not in the real world i guess
Believe me, i'm NOT trying to challenge 40 years of Mopar development, but I'm kinda confused, and i'm not an engineer. can anyone explain this to me?:confused:

 

[696pack]

it has always been the common practice to run a smaller diameter torsion bar in a drag application to aid in weight transfer. we've established that over and over, and it seems to be a practice that works.
but for some reason in my mind, when i picture a mopar launching off the line, and its nose rising quickly into the air, wouldn't a larger diameter bar assist in that? the torsion bars are basically a preloaded spring that want to push the wheels down and the body up. it makes sense to me in my mind and on paper, but not in the real world i guess
Believe me, i'm NOT trying to challenge 40 years of Mopar development, but I'm kinda confused, and i'm not an engineer. can anyone explain this to me?:confused:

This is a direct quote from an article interviewing Dick Landy back in the day, when he was giving tips for modifing factory suspension and calling for lighter torsion bars in the car.

"The whole car should rise on take off not just the front end. most of the adjustments to make the car rise are done on the rear springs, but we do a few tricks to the front suspension to loosen it up. The torsion bars that come on the 6 cylinder cars are not as stiff as those on the V-8 cars. The 6 cylinder bars are more resilient, and will let the front of the car rise for more weight transfer to the rear when we pop the clutch. Stabilizer bar brackets should be cut with a hacksaw, allowing to spread a little to relieve the clamp pressure on the rubber bushing, and then welded back togather. It will let the rod turn easier so the front end of the car can come up faster on takoff."

When asked about the front wheels of his car coming off of the ground, he had this to say. " When I do a wheelie it is because the car is getting a bunch of traction all at once. it pushs the front of the car in the air. Most of the wheelies other cars do are accomplished by jerking the front end into the air because they run out of suspension travel. That kind of wheelie is the worst you can do, it sends a shock load through the whole car and ruins traction. The cars that jerk it into the sky usually come crashing right back down. When the front end is pushed into a wheelie, it settles slowly, with the tires lightly brushing the strip held up by the acceleration."

I hope that explains it for you.

 

[macdiesel]

:sSig_thanks: That was a cool post!

 

[mopower_333]

I am not sure about this. I know that the factory Hemi (police suspension) had a different number of leafs on each side, but I THOUGHT that the super stock springs (available through parts) were the same number on each side.

Maybe someone else will chime in on this.

Super stock springs have a couple of extra leafs on the passenger side spring.

 

[macdiesel]

G-Man I think you need to pick a direction, put some blinders on and go there. Unless you have $10-15 grand to throw at just you suspension there is no 'best of both worlds'. Vipers and Ferrari's cost so much for a reason... and my mild belvedere would embarrass the crap out of them in the 1/4!

The road going out to my house is 1 mile of straight, flat, smooth pave nothing. Its my favorite part of the drive. I squash the skinny one and its driving nirvana. The wind noise picks up as the whole car lifts off the ground in unison and the exhaust roars.... then I come to the end of the road and have to turn and its over. If I take a left hand turn at more than 15-20mph my tires rub. 30mph is my limit for on/off ramps. Its like bowling with a cinder block... it just doesn't work.

Let me explain-
I have no sway bars front or rear
my torsion bars are .820" thick and give 72 lb/in of spring rate
my springs are a 6 left/7 right set up, with clamps
the rest of the suspension is stock

Torsion Bars: The small TB's allow the front to lift and then settle softly for smooth, straight acceleration. Large TB's will cause the front end to bounce when it settles, ruining your ET. However they will keep the front tires planted in a corner, when the weight of the car is on top of the front tires.
Leaf Springs: The thick(stiff), offset stack up plants the rear tires on launch and controls axle wrap. Soft equally stacked rear springs will wrap easier on a hard launch but will keep the tires planted when coming off a turn.
Sway Bars: While not needed in a straight line, sway bars keep the CG centered when centrifical force is applied. No front sway bar will cause understeer, while no rear will cause oversteer. Sway bars are often larger in the front because the extra wieght.
Shocks: Drag cars want bias shock while autocrossers want balance.
Tires: Drag cars use tall sidewalls to absorb the up and down forces of a hard launch. Autocrossers use short sidewalls for lateral stability.

Basically, everything is opposite between autocross and drag racing. If you want to have your cake and eat it too, then switch to double adjustable coil overs at all 4 wheels with a triangulated 4 link or 3 link or watts link rear.

 

[macdiesel]

Oh yeah... if your running a front sway bar, run a rear one too. Hotchkis makes a rear one thats adjustable. Just get over how it looks. I cant even see my axle unless I'm under the car.

 

[duster7071]

This is a direct quote from an article interviewing Dick Landy back in the day, when he was giving tips for modifing factory suspension and calling for lighter torsion bars in the car.

"The whole car should rise on take off not just the front end. most of the adjustments to make the car rise are done on the rear springs, but we do a few tricks to the front suspension to loosen it up. The torsion bars that come on the 6 cylinder cars are not as stiff as those on the V-8 cars. The 6 cylinder bars are more resilient, and will let the front of the car rise for more weight transfer to the rear when we pop the clutch. Stabilizer bar brackets should be cut with a hacksaw, allowing to spread a little to relieve the clamp pressure on the rubber bushing, and then welded back togather. It will let the rod turn easier so the front end of the car can come up faster on takoff."

When asked about the front wheels of his car coming off of the ground, he had this to say. " When I do a wheelie it is because the car is getting a bunch of traction all at once. it pushs the front of the car in the air. Most of the wheelies other cars do are accomplished by jerking the front end into the air because they run out of suspension travel. That kind of wheelie is the worst you can do, it sends a shock load through the whole car and ruins traction. The cars that jerk it into the sky usually come crashing right back down. When the front end is pushed into a wheelie, it settles slowly, with the tires lightly brushing the strip held up by the acceleration."

I hope that explains it for you.

i know this is old , but , where did gman end up on parts?
glad you posted this.
gman spent too much time around gm goofs,,, mopars do not SQUAT ! they RISE !
good r/t rear springs , fresh 318 torsion bars with my 440, .509 purpleshaft,4:30 gears, mid 12's qtr, handled great ! for such a big car.
i changed to XHD rear springs, 1.22 T bars,, the suspension does not move anymore, sad, i really miss the rise !,, but the reason i put the 1.22 bars in was to deal with giving rides on bristol motor speedway ! the sudden turn in on #3 was so abrupt at only 85 mph, it broke the old shock on the rt front !

plus, as the 318 bars grew weaker, the deep oil pan was getting too close to the pavement when the you let off the gas fast ! lol