What did you do today....other than work on your car!?

[YY1]

Incoming is a "clean" mess and can actually be used to clean it's self up and as a bonus, clean the surrounding area.

Outgoing is.....crap.

 

[Ron H]

I’ve been using Armor-All for decades and seems to keep the rubber pliable and looking new. Still does on my ’05 Dakota and ’09 sedan. The stuff is recommended for protecting rubber. I wash the seals first before applying the stuff. I don’t use it on plastic, leather, or vinyl. No doubt there are other products and some better; since it works for me haven’t put it on my list to go looking.

 

[Triplegreen500]

Incoming is a "clean" mess and can actually be used to clean it's self up and as a bonus, clean the surrounding area.

Outgoing is.....crap.

Outgoing leaks until the pipe is empty - and 90% is shower or sink, not always shitter. Couple gallons. Maybe.

Incoming leaks until you discover it, and turn off the water main, or the well pump. Potentially? Thousands of gallons, if you're out of town when it happens. And at today's city water rates....thousands of dollars in water, not counting the repairs and remediation.

And regardless of fresh or waste water....it'll grow mold.

I’ve been using Armor-All for decades and seems to keep the rubber pliable and looking new. Still does on my ’05 Dakota and ’09 sedan. The stuff is recommended for protecting rubber. I wash the seals first before applying the stuff. I don’t use it on plastic, leather, or vinyl. No doubt there are other products and some better; since it works for me haven’t put it on my list to go looking.

If you swipe your finger down the seal and it comes away black (or whatever color the seal is)...the seal is deteriorating. If it's working for you, great...but still not recommended.

 

[YY1]

Agree.

I wasn't saying what's better or worse for damage or repair, just that I personally prefer working on clean water piping rather than dirty water pipes.

You haven't truly lived until you've scraped off a decades old wax ring, in my opinion.

 

[Triplegreen500]

Agree.

I wasn't saying what's better or worse for damage or repair, just that I personally prefer working on clean water piping rather than dirty water pipes.

You haven't truly lived until you've scraped off a decades old wax ring, in my opinion.

I just replaced a 1974 toilet, so I could rework some 1952 cast iron pipes. And, of course....the $94 12" rough-in toilet? Put the tank 1/4" too close to the wall. So...$239 10" rough-in toilet it is. Yay.

And that's in the "good" apartment (upstairs). Downstairs...bare studs and bare subfloors. Starting fresh. And I'll make sure the bathroom will accept the 12" toilet I couldn't use upstairs.

First, though, I had to fix a slow-drain problem upstairs (shower, tub, and sink), and I'm converting a hall closet to a washer/dryer closet (moved the door out 18" for a bigger closet, plumbed hot/cold feed, washer drain, and floor drain; today is drywall patch, set floor tile and drain, and hopefully get the door and front wall framed up). Once i'm done with that...I can clean and rent that apartment while I work on downstairs.

 

[YY1]

Ouch. All that's gonna be a hit.

We're gonna have one to turn over soon.

Ours are 2000's single story, though.

We're now in the "you've paid on time ONCE in 11 months, why should we renew your lease, again" sob story phase.
I swear they've had a relative die 7 times in the past year.
...and why does that affect your ability to pay on time again?

 

[Photon440]

Incoming leaks until you discover it, and turn off the water main, or the well pump. Potentially? Thousands of gallons, if you're out of town when it happens. And at today's city water rates....thousands of dollars in water, not counting the repairs and remediation.

Just out of curiosity, what are your water rates? I'm on a water meter and currently have to pay $1.27 (Canadian) for every 1,000 liters of water (264 US gallons). My yearly water bill is a lot less now than it used to be when I was on a flat rate, before having a meter.

 

[SlingLow]

We're now in the "you've paid on time ONCE in 11 months, why should we renew your lease, again" sob story phase.
I swear they've had a relative die 7 times in the past year.
...and why does that affect your ability to pay on time again?

Makes you wonder. I had a gal that is paying on a real estate contract tell me last month that she was late because she had surgery and couldn't drive for 2 weeks. Her payment is made by another individual through Zelle. Say what?

 

[Triplegreen500]

Mine wasn't a payment issue.

It was a stupid issue - as in, she was monumentally stupid. And a slob. And I'll never trust a tenant again - EVER.

I was too hands-off and let her (an adult, nurse, supposedly responsible human) live her life in my apartment without sticking my nose in. My upstairs tenants started complaining of mice, so I called an exterminator. Walked through with him and oh. My. God. The stench - mice, and a non-housetrained dog. The mess. Pathways through rooms. And - here's the stupid part - the tub had been leaking for so long I put my foot through the rotted floor. So...out she went. Bitching that it was MY fault, the whole time.

Upstairs, I was getting complaints from neighbors (other buildings) about pot smoke. I told them repeatedly "you have a non-smoking lease". They countered with "but it's legal now". Um....so are cigarettes. Non-smoking means NON-SMOKING. So out they went.

Both were below market - she'd been there nearly 10 years and I never upped the rent; they were coworkers who needed a place and I did them a favor with a nice rate. Now, though, both places will be at or above market given all the new niceties (2 br apt's in this area simply don't have washer/dryers and downstairs is going to be all new down to the studs), so it will work out for me in the end.

And, it gives me something to do lol. I like doing stuff with my hands, and seeing a finished product. Its therapy.

And all my leases will include "I will be in the apartment once a month to change HVAC filters and do an overall check", from now on.

 

[Triplegreen500]

Just out of curiosity, what are your water rates? I'm on a water meter and currently have to pay $1.27 (Canadian) for every 1,000 liters of water (264 US gallons). My yearly water bill is a lot less now than it used to be when I was on a flat rate, before having a meter.

On my rental (not sure if its different because it is "not a primary residence"), water is $.013/gal and sewer is $.008/gal - so an average of $.02 for each gallon, in and out. My average quarterly bill for the duplex is in the $450 range when both units are occupied (I did NOT install an exterior hose bib; I don't want excessive watering, or car-washing, on my tab - I include water and sewer in the rent because there is a single meter on the single line, feeding the building, and it is cost prohibitive to install a second meter and separate the units like I did with electric).

I had contractors in there once, to set the solid countertops upstairs. I was out of town for 2 weeks. When I got back I checked out the counters...and found the toilet running. Eighteen HUNDRED dollars for the water bill that quarter.

Makes me glad I'm on a well. And also why I turn off the well, and the water heater, whenever I go out of town.

 

[Cranky]

Don't ever use armor all on rubber seals. Go to an RV store, there's a product specifically for rubber seals. RVs use it on the slideout seals. Forget the name at the moment, but armor all will eat at the rubber. It's petroleum-based.

Armor All uses a water based silicone emulsion. Despite what some Corvette forums claim, it has no petroleum distillates or alcohol in it. Anyone can look up the MSDS for it. It does contain 1,2-Benzisothiazolin-3-one, which is actually used as a preservative for natural rubber latex.

Around late 73 a bud bought a used but nice Suburu....he Armor All'ed the complete interior almost every week and before long, everything that was exposed to the sun either curled up or split open. Don't know if the product caused that or if it was about ready to do that when he bought it but it left a desire for me to not use it lol.

Ouch. All that's gonna be a hit.

We're gonna have one to turn over soon.

Ours are 2000's single story, though.

We're now in the "you've paid on time ONCE in 11 months, why should we renew your lease, again" sob story phase.
I swear they've had a relative die 7 times in the past year.
...and why does that affect your ability to pay on time again?

Used to own a furniture store that was sales and rentals but most of our business was rentals. Talk about excuses!! And usually, the nicer the car was that they drove meant the more problems with paying would be.

 

[YY1]

We have a clause for an inspection/filter change with 3 days notice.

Interestingly, one of our worst tenants was also a nurse, RN.

We often joke about the "dingbat" nurse.

She's the one that had someone replace a 4 foot by 6 foot section of drywall (extremely poorly) in the 3rd BR due to her dogs tearing it up, and also replaced the door.
.....but hung it backwards, so it covered the light switch when opened.
...and thought we wouldn't notice.

We've decided that when the house is paid off, we'll treat it to a new, professional drywall patch there.

Also interestingly, that door also took a bullet from the last tenant.

Counting the "open the door, bitch" domestic violence replacement when we first bought the house, that room has had SIX doors in not quite 10 years.

You certainly get some interesting stories to tell in this business.

...but that IS the business.

 

[Cranky]

We have a clause for an inspection/filter change with 3 days notice.

Interestingly, one of our worst tenants was also a nurse, RN.

We often joke about the "dingbat" nurse.

She's the one that had someone replace a 4 foot by 6 foot section of drywall (extremely poorly) in the 3rd BR due to her dogs tearing it up, and also replaced the door.
.....but hung it backwards, so it covered the light switch when opened.
...and thought we wouldn't notice.

We've decided that when the house is paid off, we'll treat it to a new, professional drywall patch there.

Interestingly, that door also took a bullet from the last tenant.

Counting the "open the door, bitch" domestic violence replacement when we first bought the house, that room has had SIX doors in not quite 10 years.

You certainly get some interesting stories to tell in this business.

...but that IS the business.

I found out about rental properties when my sister and her husband started buying them. They ended up with 50 units with a spread of single houses, duplexes and 4plexes and even had a row house that had about 10 units in it. They also bought an old time hardware store and kept most of the feel of that. It still had wash tubs etc hanging from the ceiling. Anyways, I learned quite a bit about the hardware and rental property business back then from mid 78 until early 80. Some of the buildings were fairly nice but the majority of them were....well, slummy. I liked the hardware better lol

 

[YY1]

It's been an adventure for sure.

I learned about the power of rental properties working for a woman/couple that owned a cheaply built 40 unit apartment complex.

After all the bills were paid, that complex paid each of them and a silent partner $6500 a month plus she paid herself $42,000 a year to be the part time manager (three days a week, six hours each day) and kept an apartment there as they lived about 60 miles away.

Nice gig, I thought.

We're not dong quite that well, but one of the houses is paid off and the other is WAY right side up versus market value.
...and the income from those two rentals pays ALL of our monthly bills and insurance.


It's WAY better than working a "real" second job.

 

[Don selleck]

I thought about buying some rental properties, but decided to invest my money in booze and Mopar's. would be hard for me to redo a home and have someone destroy it, I can understand why alot of these units are just patched up. Doesn't make sense to put alot into it. Flipped several houses over the years and thought about renting them, and ended up selling and cashed out. I don't think I would make a very good landlord.

 

[YY1]

It's definitely not for everyone.

...and you for sure need to "do the math" and price vs service life/appeal factor calculations.

My wife and I are both "handy" as the saying goes and rarely farm out anything if we are able to do it ourselves and have the time.

We've got a pretty cool collection of special job tools as well, at 20%-ish write off discount.

We just bought a mortise hinge jig and a pocket screw jig.
Probably would not have those if my wife wasn't a former cabinet maker/finish carpenter.
Or if we had paid someone else to reface the kitchen cabinets and replace one and also re-laminate the 48x93 counter.
...and I now have an oscillating tool which I used to repair the rotten bottom 8" of an exterior door frame.
Probably wouldn't have bought that otherwise.

That neighborhood has an issue with rotten door frames.
I've done it 7 times. I wonder what that would have cost if we paid someone else.
Next time I'm gong to try building it out of PVC.
I put PVC brickmold and shoe on the last one but I think I can build the actual frame patch from laminated PVC.

 

[Cranky]

I thought about buying some rental properties, but decided to invest my money in booze and Mopar's. would be hard for me to redo a home and have someone destroy it, I can understand why alot of these units are just patched up. Doesn't make sense to put alot into it. Flipped several houses over the years and thought about renting them, and ended up selling and cashed out. I don't think I would make a very good landlord.

After owning the furniture store, I decided I didn't want to deal with the public anymore! Same thing with building engines....got tired of all the aholes changing their minds about the build after I was half way into it or more and then not wanting to pay for the extra time spent. Then there were the ones that thought I shouldn't charge what I was because I didn't have the overhead that a storefront had. However, I found out that rear end work was the way to go as most are afraid of the 'witch craft' of how power can make a 90* turn lol. But every now and then, there would be someone that thought they knew more than they really did.

 

[Triplegreen500]

I got into the rental "right" - half a mile from my house, foreclosure/abandoned for at least six years. Cinderblock with aluminum siding, foundation to roof trusses. Hardwood floors throughout (not anymore, she trashed the ones downstairs). Bought it for less than the sticker price of my Grand Cherokee. (2) 2 bed/1 bath apartments on 1/3 acre. Lower apartment has full unfinished basement, upper apartment has a full, walk-up (stairway) unfinished attic. Put a new roof and 2 new heat pumps in right away. Downstairs was decent, so I slapped a coat of paint and rented it. Upstairs was a train wreck - I redid it completely, wiring and everything. Now...it's downstairs' turn. Once both are rented at market value, it will pay 150% of the mortgage on my house (I own the duplex free and clear) every month. And the deductions.....THAT, is the lifesaver.

One is enough.

I like building and I like fixing, but if I do another property it will be to flip, not rent. This one, I'll keep for a while...it's a nice financial safety cushion - and if I decide to sell, it zillow's for about 3.5x what I have in it. Cap gains would suck...but I'd still come out ok if I had to sell it.

 

[YY1]

The other side of owning rentals is it puts you on the other side of "supply and demand", and "pass it on to the consumer".

Prices go up...rent goes up.

Most of the time.

I'm a little concerned what's going to happen when all the new construction around here gets done.

Thankfully we've got a pretty big cushion and can go down quite a bit if necessary and still be OK.

 

[SlingLow]

One is enough.

In my experience, one rental is more difficult to manage than several. Why? Cash flow. If you have 1 unit and it's empty for any period of time, you are subsidizing 100% of the cost from your other assets or income. When you have several, you can still have positive cash flow when turning over individual units.

I like building and I like fixing, but if I do another property it will be to flip, not rent.

I flipped houses for 20 years and did much of the maintenance and repair on my rentals at first. Then I realized as a 50% partner, half of what I was paid for this work was my money, and I decided that the extra money in my pocket and savings over hiring out just wasn't worth the effort. Once we built up to a decent cash flow, it was easier for me to hire out. If I was 100% owner I would probably still be doing much of it myself.

Cap gains would suck...but I'd still come out ok if I had to sell it.

Don't forget about depreciation recapture. Double whammy! If you're in a position to sell on contract, you can spread the tax liability over several years and add interest income to the formula.