Would a 71 B Body out handle a 2018 BMW M3?

[DeltaV]

Not me. I go right on by.

It has an electronically limited top speed of 155 mph. I am not going to verify by testing.

BMW: Buy More Wrenches

 

[DeltaV]

My fun car back in the day and wish I still had it.

 

[Photon440]

Pluses and minuses...

2018 M3:
425 horsepower
3540 pounds
6-speed manual
four wheel disc ABS
P255/40/YR18 front tires
P275/40/YR18 rear tires
rack & pinion steering

1971 road runner
looks better

 

[DeltaV]

No fair comparing looks of a coupe and a sedan.

Here's a 2018 BMW M2 (only comes as a coupe)

The diatribe can now commence.

 

[Kern Dog]

No. Don’t even try. If you want a car for handling look into something newer.

Maybe YOU don't know how to make an old car handle but some people do.
Guess what? You don't have to keep 15" wheels and bias ply tires on your car! These cars can be made to handle quite well. It has been proven.

 

[Greg Ducato]

No, no, no, don't back out of the challenge. Ok, tell ya what... if I win, I'll take the charger, if you win you take the road runner.

Deal!

 

[66 Sat]

View attachment 1664605

Maybe YOU don't know how to make an old car handle but some people do.
Guess what? You don't have to keep 15" wheels and bias ply tires on your car! These cars can be made to handle quite well. It has been proven.

View attachment 1664607

View attachment 1664608

View attachment 1664609

In his defence the OP was asking if only changing a few things like steering box, control arms and bushings, sway bars would make the car handle better than an M3.
The answer is no.
Can it be done, of course. With enough money and skill. Cheaper and easier to have a different starting point.
Fundamental differences in weight distribution, chassis rigidity, suspension geometry, production tolerances etc are going to remain a challenge.
You're not going to beat 50 years of technological advancement by slapping in a Borgeson steering box and boxing in the LCAs.

 

[WileE]

I'm still waiting for someone to give me their road runner or charger to engage the competition.

 

[Rennkafer]

Not sure why everyone seems to think you'd have to lighten the RR... my '71 Coronet weighs about the same as the M3, the RR is lighter already.

As far as who would win... a lot of "depends". What is the track surface like, do we get to turn off all the electro-nannies on the M3, are they on equal rubber, do they have equal shocks, what engine in the RR and how stock, what are the drivers skill/talent levels... tons of things.

The RR "could" win... but probably wouldn't.

 

[cubanmoparnut54]

I agree that an A body would be a much better platform and could definitely be made to handle "as good" or maybe better (think Green Brick from Mopar Action). The B body platform overall is just too big in terms of wheel base as well as weight in general. Sure you can add more HP but that isn't going to make up the difference generally. I say "generally" because if you throw enough money at a B body (or any car) you can get it to do pretty much whatever you wish.

Interesting. Just a theory

 

[cubanmoparnut54]

I agree that an A body would be a much better platform and could definitely be made to handle "as good" or maybe better (think Green Brick from Mopar Action). The B body platform overall is just too big in terms of wheel base as well as weight in general. Sure you can add more HP but that isn't going to make up the difference generally. I say "generally" because if you throw enough money at a B body (or any car) you can get it to do pretty much whatever you wish.

I'm new to Mopars and I bought a 71 Roadrunner clone a few months ago. I have had an 80' trans am and a 79' Camaro both with a new front suspension and those cars handled very well and sometimes better than some of the late model performance cars I have driven. So I do not have much of a clue. My 71' is a much better car than any of the other cars I've owned. The car is definitely up to par or faster in a straight line with the 340 and the 904 than my buddy's 2018 BMW. It doesn't drive terribly for having the original bushings and 24:1 manual steering but I have dreams of making handle very well with my plans. Those include a Borgeson 14:1 power steering box, Tubular upper control arms, poly bushings lower and upper, larger torsion bars, 3/4 rear sway bar, and a good set of shocks. I may or may not due subframe connectors to at least have a comfortable ride.

 

[cubanmoparnut54]

Not sure why everyone seems to think you'd have to lighten the RR... my '71 Coronet weighs about the same as the M3, the RR is lighter already.

As far as who would win... a lot of "depends". What is the track surface like, do we get to turn off all the electro-nannies on the M3, are they on equal rubber, do they have equal shocks, what engine in the RR and how stock, what are the drivers skill/talent levels... tons of things.

The RR "could" win... but probably wouldn't.

I have a 71 roadrunner clone. 340 not a very heavy car by modern standards. Does not drive as badly as i expected for the large wheel base. and Manual steering

 

[Purepony]

O

View attachment 1664605

Maybe YOU don't know how to make an old car handle but some people do.
Guess what? You don't have to keep 15" wheels and bias ply tires on your car! These cars can be made to handle quite well. It has been proven.

View attachment 1664607

View attachment 1664608

View attachment 1664609

In his defence the OP was asking if only changing a few things like steering box, control arms and bushings, sway bars would make the car handle better than an M3.
The answer is no.
Can it be done, of course. With enough money and skill. Cheaper and easier to have a different starting point.
Fundamental differences in weight distribution, chassis rigidity, suspension geometry, production tolerances etc are going to remain a challenge.
You're not going to beat 50 years of technological advancement by slapping in a Borgeson steering box and boxing in the LCAs.

Thank you

In his defence the OP was asking if only changing a few things like steering box, control arms and bushings, sway bars would make the car handle better than an M3.
The answer is no.
Can it be done, of course. With enough money and skill. Cheaper and easier to have a different starting point.
Fundamental differences in weight distribution, chassis rigidity, suspension geometry, production tolerances etc are going to remain a challenge.
You're not going to beat 50 years of technological advancement by slapping in a Borgeson steering box and boxing in the LCAs.

thank you, exactly why I didn’t even bother replying.

 

[70chall440]

I'm new to Mopars and I bought a 71 Roadrunner clone a few months ago. I have had an 80' trans am and a 79' Camaro both with a new front suspension and those cars handled very well and sometimes better than some of the late model performance cars I have driven. So I do not have much of a clue. My 71' is a much better car than any of the other cars I've owned. The car is definitely up to par or faster in a straight line with the 340 and the 904 than my buddy's 2018 BMW. It doesn't drive terribly for having the original bushings and 24:1 manual steering but I have dreams of making handle very well with my plans. Those include a Borgeson 14:1 power steering box, Tubular upper control arms, poly bushings lower and upper, larger torsion bars, 3/4 rear sway bar, and a good set of shocks. I may or may not due subframe connectors to at least have a comfortable ride.

IMO all of the mods that you are proposing will make your car handle very well especially of you tie that body together with torque boxes and subframe connectors. These cars were not made all that well and being unibody provides a lot of body flex. You can mitigate ride through your choice of torsion bars, sway bar adjustment and shocks.

I also believe that "handling" is a very relative thing for the majority of people. You say that your previous GM cars handled better than "some of the late model performance cars". Was this just seat of the pants handling or did you put them on a road course or run autocross with them?

Bottom line is that you can get your car to handle very well but establishing a comparison like a M3 or something I think its both subjective and a stretch. I can tell you that I have all of the items you mention and then some in my 73 Cuda and it handles well but not as well as my 01 Viper GTS ACR and while probably better than my 10 Challenger RT not by a whole lot.

 

[autoxcuda]

I'm new to Mopars and I bought a 71 Roadrunner clone a few months ago. I have had an 80' trans am and a 79' Camaro both with a new front suspension and those cars handled very well and sometimes better than some of the late model performance cars I have driven. So I do not have much of a clue. My 71' is a much better car than any of the other cars I've owned. The car is definitely up to par or faster in a straight line with the 340 and the 904 than my buddy's 2018 BMW. It doesn't drive terribly for having the original bushings and 24:1 manual steering but I have dreams of making handle very well with my plans. Those include a Borgeson 14:1 power steering box, Tubular upper control arms, poly bushings lower and upper, larger torsion bars, 3/4 rear sway bar, and a good set of shocks. I may or may not due subframe connectors to at least have a comfortable ride.

Is you buddy's car a 2018 M3 ??

No offense but do you believe your 340 roadrunner is 0-60-mph in 3.9 seconds? That's around a 12.5 to 13 sec. 1/4 mile time.

cubanmoparnut54's car: Driving 71 roadrunner clone 400 miles​

from: https://www.kbb.com/bmw/m3/2018/

"...Engine & Transmission
The M3 has a gift under the hood in the form of a twin-turbo, 3.0-liter inline 6-cylinder engine. Standard output is 425 horsepower and 406 lb-ft of torque that enable a 0-60-mph blast of 3.9 seconds and governed top speed of 155 mph. With the Competition power, horsepower is increased to 444. If you’re lucky enough to score a 2018 BMW M3 CS, you’ll get 453 horsepower, a 3.7-second 0-60-mph time, and a top speed that rises to 174 mph. The M3 is rear-wheel drive and features the Active M Differential that automatically distributes power to each wheel for the best performance. The M3 comes standard with a 6-speed manual transmission. Less recommendable but likely more popular is the 7-speed twin-clutch automatic...."

Also... even though these 2018 M3's seem to be around 3500 lbs, but they have a 52% front and 48% rear weight bias. That will be hard to get to in your 71 B-body.

 

[MarPar]

@cubanmoparnut54

No Joda, Chico.

 

[Rennkafer]

Also... even though these 2018 M3's seem to be around 3500 lbs, but they have a 52% front and 48% rear weight bias. That will be hard to get to in your 71 B-body.

Would take moving the battery to the trunk, an aluminum radiator, maybe a mini starter. My 71 Coronet is 54/46 bone stock. The 71 up cars are neither as heavy nor as nose heavy as people seem to think.
This is my Coronet on my corner scales when I first got it. It's lighter now. With some work I could get it to 50/50.

 

[SeabeckRedneck]

I have a 1968 Charger with a 383 HP 4 bbl and a BMW 540i. Should I race myself?

 

[Rennkafer]

I have a 1968 Charger with a 383 HP 4 bbl and a BMW 540i. Should I race myself?

Oh definitely... bring them both out to a BSCC Autocross.

 

[#41]

Not sure why everyone seems to think you'd have to lighten the RR... my '71 Coronet weighs about the same as the M3, the RR is lighter already.

Because the RR is comparably deficient in so many other areas, it is one of the basic things that can be used to "catch up" to the M3's overall advantage.