512 engine build - 18 months and counting, advice how to tackle this please

[OzCharger69]

I'm after some advice on how to deal with this. Having ordered this from Australia, I am not sure what are my rights and the best way to tackle this.

19 months ago, I engaged a reasonably reputable engine builder for a 512 crate engine - low deck 400, trickflow heads etc etc. I paid around $6k as a deposit in May 2021. When we spoke over the phone he indicated that the engine would take 4-6 months to build. Everytime I email him he tells me that he's waiting from parts, mostly the trickflow heads and the cam. I don't know if he is taking me for a ride or not. I would like your advice on the matter. I still want the engine but I'm not ready to wait for that much longer.

I am not naming the builder yet because I'm hoping that this will get resolved and his name is not tarnished.

 

[gkent]

A couple of months ago nobody had ANY heads, not just Trick Flow !!

 

[RemCharger]

This stuff takes time. Not like going to the store for a box of roni's

 

[Budnicks]

IMHFO
I don't see any
'reputable engine builder', having to wait that long for parts
they have other sources/suppliers alternitives too
they can be purchased even thru Summit Racing, in stock

I know or used to know quite a few engine builders
in the past have taken way too long, excuse excuses excuses
chassis fabricators & engine builders have bad reputations,
for good reasons
(like body shops/body jail, this is machinist jail, we see it all the time here,
19 months is crazy)
much of it is because they were swamped,
more than parts waiting times
some is bad management & doing favors for customers/people/friends after you...

But custom pistons, custom heads, custom crank & rods, custom camshaft,
trick heads/head porting by a professional, or the newest fad/trend hot parts
all can take time, should NOT be 19 months
(440source.com has Made in the USA stuff/kits/components, much of it 'in stock' too)
many engine builders like to do their own too, that takes longer
(but not 19 months)
some good some & worth the wait, some not so good too
many of the same stuff can be ordered 'thru an online source' now,
many are in stock & shipped the next day 'sometimes' too

places like INDY
have or had serious backorder/backlogged problems
horrid customer service

some of the newest fad & craze for AFR heads makes them backlogged too

You could have gone thru someone like Blueprint,
got it much sooner too

some use Wuhan Flu/Covid excuses,
some are real, some are BS excuses/lies too

sometimes the builders sit on **** & are lazy
(more often than not)
especially when they already have a big part of the $$$ too

caveat emptor/buyer beware

I hope it gets resolved sooner than later

good luck

 

[Geoff 2]

The last 440 I built [ here ], the owner had waited a few months for TF 240 heads from Summit. A pair of heads suddenly arrived, even though the S website they were still on back order?!
I suspect S found a pair...that they did not know they had.
I used a custom ground Comp roller cam. My contact at Comp was able to get a core & it was here 3 weeks later.

 

[66 Sat]

First thing - forget emailing as the only contact. Good for possible later legal position but easy to get brushed off.
Call him up or even better drop in to see him. Much harder to lie face to face or when speaking to you, plus you get the vibe which you can't get with an email.
 Then email him, and write "further to our conversation on *** I confirm the (list the parts) are expected to arrive on *** and the engine will be complete by xxxx. Note the fact the deposit was paid on whatever date with the expectation of the engine being finished by the original date and that hasn't been met.
See how go from there. Some parts are scarce at the moment, but if you can get the exact list from him you can do some homework and see what the truth is.
The main thing with any potential future legal argument is getting your ducks in a row.
Edit: I've just read it properly and see it's 18 months which is ludicrous. I would still do the above and then engage a lawyer and send a legal letter confirming a firm date for completion and a firm price for the outstanding amount too.
I don't know what you've agreed in terms of dollars but you don't want another shock when it's finally finished.

 

[OzCharger69]

Thanks for all your replies. I think this adjusts my expectations, maybe I was being unrealistic too. The builder did offer different heads but I preferred to stick to Trickflows. I'll give me a call in the NY.

 

[Runcharger]

I think the Trickflows haven't been available for over a year.

 

[beanhead]

440 Source has done a good job keeping TF heads in stock. That's where I bought mine in 2021....when nobody else could seem to get them.
They've got some in stock now as well.

 

[Kern Dog]

This stuff takes time. Not like going to the store for a box of roni's

Uhhh...did you read the title and text of the story? 4-6 months is a far cry from 19 months.
Try this...stand on one foot for 4 minutes, THEN do it for 19 minutes and tell me that there is no difference.
Yes...we all know that "Supply Chain" issues are the common excuse nowadays but that is not the only problem. A company takes a deposit so they are obligated to keep their customers informed. A shop that refuses to return calls or emails is a shitty business.

 

[padam]

Uhhh...did you read the title and text of the story? 4-6 months is a far cry from 19 months.
Try this...stand on one foot for 4 minutes, THEN do it for 19 minutes and tell me that there is no difference.
Yes...we all know that "Supply Chain" issues are the common excuse nowadays but that is not the only problem. A company takes a deposit so they are obligated to keep their customers informed. A shop that refuses to return calls or emails is a shitty business.

View attachment 1389336

Haha I made runner up in Sportsman class points this year at my home track. I asked if I got anything for the effort, was told no because Summit cut back on sponsorship because of Covid.

 

[hunt2elk]

440 Source has done a good job keeping TF heads in stock. That's where I bought mine in 2021....when nobody else could seem to get them.
They've got some in stock now as well.

I bought a set of Trick Flow 240's a month or so ago from 440 Source. Was kind of surprised they were the only place that had any. I think they had 42 of them on the shelf at that time.

 

[Kern Dog]

Holy crap...If I knew 440 source had them, I would have used them on my Re-Rebuild !

 

[Cranky]

Uhhh...did you read the title and text of the story? 4-6 months is a far cry from 19 months.
Try this...stand on one foot for 4 minutes, THEN do it for 19 minutes and tell me that there is no difference.
Yes...we all know that "Supply Chain" issues are the common excuse nowadays but that is not the only problem. A company takes a deposit so they are obligated to keep their customers informed. A shop that refuses to return calls or emails is a shitty business.

View attachment 1389336

Well....sometimes the ones supplying the product to these business don't let them know what's going on and so the businesses end up holding the bag while all of their customers are calling them asking 'when' and after a flood of that going on and spending way too much time on the phone trying to answer all of the questions, they get frustrated too and quit answering the phone....especially a small business that's trying to concentrate on working on what they can. I know I spent a lot of time on the phone many times trying to help someone out and then they would just say thanks and bye to never hear from them again. But I would think these days even a small business would have a web site and could at least put up a note saying something about what's going on or even say they have no idea why the suppliers are not sending them the product.

 

[QuickBpBp]

If it’s a supply chain issue, After a year and 1/2 of not being able to deliver it I would think that they are almost out of business. That means everyone else’s parts are not available to button up their engines either. I am thinking since the guy is in Australia he is just being dicked around…

 

[440plus6]

I bought a set of Trick Flow 240's a month or so ago from 440 Source. Was kind of surprised they were the only place that had any. I think they had 42 of them on the shelf at that time.

So did I, were at my door in less than a week

 

[Rebelrouser]

I build a few engines, in fact I just completed a 512 based on a 400, with ported iron heads and hydraulic roller. It made 500HP and 538 ft. lbs of torque and idles at 16 inches of vacuum.
And while we have had some supply chain problems here in the US, if you spend some time on the phone and the internet you can get an engine built. My back log has been with machine work. I just waited 5 weeks to get a block and set of heads surfaced. My machinist is a great guy but he is just overwhelmed with work, plus he is in his 60's like me and maybe not youthful enough to really work super hard anymore. I do know Trickflow heads were in short supply as well as pistons for quite a while. so were blanks to grind camshafts. I simply substituted suppliers when needed, many builders are not comfortable with using any suppliers than the ones they done business with for years. So it could be a combination of factors, like parts supply and work backlog. As a business owner trying to keep the doors open, does he just sit on an engine we can't get finished or does he take on and complete another engine to put money in the bank to keep going.

 

[BDF6]

I am (going to try to) only say that this brings back bad, expensive memories. I wish you a speedy resolution and believe that when you mash the petrol pedal it was worth it!

 

[Budnicks]

@OzCharger69

did the engine ever get done/built or delivered

I hope you're not still waiting

what's the update on the build ?
& what did it make HP ?

 

[OzCharger69]

Basically I spoke to him and he said that he was using different heads and I pulled him back to the agreement that we agreed to use Trickflow heads. He said they haven't been in stock for ages and then I showed him a link from 440 source where they were in stock. He said that it will cost extra to use those heads because he normally gets them wholesale from somewhere else. He had to get back to me weeks ago with a price but never did. I will call him next week. Same old to and fro and nothing happens. I feel like a big name and shame but I'm holding off and giving him the chance to do the right thing.