Legal issue with VIN on a B-J car today?

[68BabyBlue]

The expression for this situation when I took Property I in law school was "cloud on title." Everything may be on the up and up, but a lawyer will probably collect a fee making that "cloud" go away.

 

[nitro_rat]

The expression for this situation when I took Property I in law school was "cloud on title." Everything may be on the up and up, but a lawyer will probably collect a fee making that "cloud" go away.

A few years ago there was a '59 Corvette that a guy had restored in Kansas. The state ended up confiscating it with the intent to destroy it because the guy had removed and reattached the VIN during the restoration. The guy spent a mountain of $$$ on lawyers and was able to stay the destruction and eventually (years later I believe) have the car returned to him albeit with considerable damage from its time in the state's custody. If I was the purchaser of this car I would be finding out who that guy's lawyer was and be getting in contact.

That case is the reason for the language someone posted this morning - it's present in both Kansas and Arizona law regarding the removal and replacement of 1981 and earlier VIN's for restoration purposes.

 

[68BabyBlue]

A few years ago there was a '59 Corvette that a guy had restored in Kansas. The state ended up confiscating it with the intent to destroy it because the guy had removed and reattached the VIN during the restoration. The guy spent a mountain of $$$ on lawyers and was able to stay the destruction and eventually (years later I believe) have the car returned to him albeit with considerable damage from its time in the state's custody. If I was the purchaser of this car I would be finding out who that guy's lawyer was and be getting in contact.

That case is the reason for the language someone posted this morning - it's present in both Kansas and Arizona law regarding the removal and replacement of 1981 and earlier VIN's for restoration purposes.

As a lawyer, this stuff scares the crap out of me. I know how much it costs to prove you're in the clear when an agent of the state says you're not. As I posted earlier, that knowledge made me extremely paranoid about documented history on any Mopar I purchased.

 

[Runcharger]

IMO: They're lucky the car wasn't confiscated, that's is why I stay away from piles like that. A car with no VIN or paperwork is a pile of parts. I found a 71 Hemi GTX in the 80's I would have liked to buy, it had been stolen and recovered though and had a govt. assigned VIN, so it really wasn't a Hemi GTX anymore in my eyes even though the body #'s said it was.

 

[nitro_rat]

IMO: They're lucky the car wasn't confiscated, that's is why I stay away from piles like that. A car with no VIN or paperwork is a pile of parts. I found a 71 Hemi GTX in the 80's I would have liked to buy, it had been stolen and recovered though and had a govt. assigned VIN, so it really wasn't a Hemi GTX anymore in my eyes even though the body #'s said it was.

As the buyer or seller I would probably rather that the car was taken until the situation was sorted out. The whole thing stinks now. Even if they get the VIN reunited with the car it's going to have a stigma forever...

 

[WileE]

I think I found the answer to this riddle. From none other than the "guru" himself :

oh my, oh my, oh my !!

 

[nitro_rat]

I think I found the answer to this riddle. From none other than the "guru" himself : View attachment 1796487 oh my, oh my, oh my !!

Wow, the mere mention of that name gives me a quiver in my liver!

 

[DeltaV]

We need an automobile version of the successful BBC "Fake or Fortune?" art television show. That being said, who would be our expert hosts? I know who I don't want for hosts!

 

[torredcuda]

So do the authorities who removed them have definitive proof of fraud or do they just cut off every vin they thinks looks "suspect" according to someone? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? We all know there are factory mistakes with vin numbers and stampings, hopefully they are doing an investigation and will sort it out once they have their findings if not they made a big mess that is not easily fixed, if at all.

 

[kiwigtx]

So do the authorities who removed them have definitive proof of fraud or do they just cut off every vin they thinks looks "suspect" according to someone? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? We all know there are factory mistakes with vin numbers and stampings, hopefully they are doing an investigation and will sort it out once they have their findings if not they made a big mess that is not easily fixed, if at all.

We have to assume at this stage that there is sufficient evidence to show this car is very suspect in many areas.

 

[moparedtn]

Tom @ Rocket Resto replied to my question saying the AZ authorities have not answered him yet on what's going on.
At this point, one could assume there's some detective work going on at the state level...

 

[JackR]

I bought my roadrunner without a title. I needed to have the Az state police do an inspection and they went to the hidden vin at the radiator support and on trunk lip. Obviously it matched. Then had to pay $500.00 for the bond title insurance. Even though car was basically junk they use middle secret book to value it. So $500.00. That is bonded for 1 year then can get a regular title.

 

[AR67GTX]

Has anyone asked how they removed the VIN from the dash at the auction - without removing the windshield? Is the dash pad now thrashed?

 

[moparedtn]

Has anyone asked how they removed the VIN from the dash at the auction - without removing the windshield? Is the dash pad now thrashed?

It's shown plainly in the video. Look around the 5:00 mark...

 

[dadsbee]

Has anyone asked how they removed the VIN from the dash at the auction - without removing the windshield? Is the dash pad now thrashed?

Chisel..

 

[1STMP]

Agree THEN verify what it is or isn't...

The only reson to pull ident numbers
is there's something nefarious with
the car's vins and supporting docs.
Suprised they didn't impound the
car. The only thing I can think of
is the rad support vin is true to
the car. Which is questionable
due to it's being wrecked.

 

[kiwigtx]

 

[torredcuda]

We have to assume at this stage that there is sufficient evidence to show this car is very suspect in many areas.

Yes, it is SUSPECT, not proven, yet they still let the car sell?

 

[eldubb440]

90% of all restored cars are "suspect", IMO

riddle me this......... if a car has an engine with a different vin than the dash vin; why is this not an issue in the eyes of the "law"?

 

[torredcuda]

How many cars have been in front end accidents and had their radiator supports replaced or restored with 90% of the original metal replaced are they all "suspect or illegal?