Sure like the looks of the low scoop on this early model 65. Sweet car you have Stage 3.
LemonWedge 470 build thread
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cdr
Well-Known Member
Did you order the intake with max wedge ports ? mine came with in between stock 440 & Max wedge size, I had to open up the runners. wish I would have paid more attention to your build, I would have sold you my ported Indy intake
cdr
Well-Known Member
400 indy
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
I’m now finding myself very confused and leary of this situation.
I went and scoured their website. I see nothing offering higher end camshaft materials to ”endure high levels of abuse”. I’ve never heard of such a thing. I’m already buying a billet steel core camshaft. Perhaps you guys can offer me some education?
I am generally not a guy that tends to yell fire without seeing the flames for myself. Thus far I have felt really good about my dealings with Howards. My bullshit detector would seem to be gently nudging me however, suggesting that perhaps IF they had a few cores set aside as emergency stock for special “high visibility” customers, they may tend to be reluctant to reach for that bin, and would not only be looking to make a little extra coin if they have to dip into emergency stock, but would also have to come up with some story (read b-s) about the process as well(???).
what do you guys think here.
I went and scoured their website. I see nothing offering higher end camshaft materials to ”endure high levels of abuse”. I’ve never heard of such a thing. I’m already buying a billet steel core camshaft. Perhaps you guys can offer me some education?
I am generally not a guy that tends to yell fire without seeing the flames for myself. Thus far I have felt really good about my dealings with Howards. My bullshit detector would seem to be gently nudging me however, suggesting that perhaps IF they had a few cores set aside as emergency stock for special “high visibility” customers, they may tend to be reluctant to reach for that bin, and would not only be looking to make a little extra coin if they have to dip into emergency stock, but would also have to come up with some story (read b-s) about the process as well(???).
what do you guys think here.
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I agree with you on your line of thought about already buying a billet cam. There’s others out there. Maybe need to put a contingency plan in place.
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
the problem with going elsewhere at this point is I already have the springs and lifters for this cam. If I were go to a Comp Cam, I’d want to run comp lifters and springs specific to that cam.
I know I could return stuff…. but that’s a hassle also. Not really looking to trade one headache for another.
I think the contigiency plan at this point is to work a deal with Howards for one of the “high end” cores. The more I think about it, the more it really chaps my Hyde that I callEd them and went through the whole specifying process, never once did they mention ANYTHING about differing core material options. Now I’m supposed to pay extra?!!
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66Satellite47
Well-Known Member
Never dealt with Howards, so I don't know how much BS they sling. Back in the day I ran a couple Comp billet rollers & a Lunati billet roller. Pretty sure those were USA parts. These days maybe the "standard" comes from China & the "high end" are USA? I don't know. I'd ask them what the SAE rating is on the steel bar that the billet is ground from.
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
Update:
Now I feel a little bad about the above post. Serves me right I guess; I should have made todays phone calls before posting anything.
So I talked with my machinist and he concurred that he is aware of varying levels of billet steel that cam manufacturers typically choose between depending on application. I then called Howards direct and asked all the questions I could think of. the difference in cores is 8620 steel vs 8660 steel. They said the tipping point is typically when spring pressures get up around 1000-lbs, they move to the 8660 core For less deflection and harmonics. Since we’re only applying roughly 660lbs in my application, he never even considered it. He said there’s no down side except the cost, and he agreed to knock the price down to just cover their cost Since a I’ve been waiting for nearly 6 months, so I said Yes to this option. After having my machinist tell me of some recent cam failures he’s seen; I actually feel pretty good about this “upgrade” now.
Luke at Howard’s did tell me that while he hears other companies are getting core materials wherever they can these days, Howards made the decision to stick with their original (2) sources for quality control and business partnership reasons. He is going to put in the work order with the 8660 core, and send a cost adjustment through Summit. Hopefully I’ll have it before too long.
in the meantime, here’s what I’ve been up to: since a fresh set of headers just wasn’t in the budget this year, I decided to try wrapping my trusty Hooker Comps. I think I actually dig the look. We’ll see how this holds up until I pop for a set of 2” Doug’s or Super-Comps at some point.
Now I feel a little bad about the above post. Serves me right I guess; I should have made todays phone calls before posting anything.
So I talked with my machinist and he concurred that he is aware of varying levels of billet steel that cam manufacturers typically choose between depending on application. I then called Howards direct and asked all the questions I could think of. the difference in cores is 8620 steel vs 8660 steel. They said the tipping point is typically when spring pressures get up around 1000-lbs, they move to the 8660 core For less deflection and harmonics. Since we’re only applying roughly 660lbs in my application, he never even considered it. He said there’s no down side except the cost, and he agreed to knock the price down to just cover their cost Since a I’ve been waiting for nearly 6 months, so I said Yes to this option. After having my machinist tell me of some recent cam failures he’s seen; I actually feel pretty good about this “upgrade” now.
Luke at Howard’s did tell me that while he hears other companies are getting core materials wherever they can these days, Howards made the decision to stick with their original (2) sources for quality control and business partnership reasons. He is going to put in the work order with the 8660 core, and send a cost adjustment through Summit. Hopefully I’ll have it before too long.
in the meantime, here’s what I’ve been up to: since a fresh set of headers just wasn’t in the budget this year, I decided to try wrapping my trusty Hooker Comps. I think I actually dig the look. We’ll see how this holds up until I pop for a set of 2” Doug’s or Super-Comps at some point.
cdr
Well-Known Member
Mine have been wrapped for about 10 years & LOTS of spark plug changes & a motor freshen up about 4 years ago , they need redone at this point.
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That cost adjustment (vs $100) and keeping the project moving forward is the most important thing, but the rest of the info is good to know.
66Satellite47
Well-Known Member
Lemon, Just to clarify, your machinist has actually seen billet roller cam failures?
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
I cannot confirm that they were billet cores. But he showed me pictures of (2) recent roller cam failures @ engines he built. Both just plain broken. Both recent builds that would have been considered “fresh“ motors. Both Comp Cams solid roller products.
He felt that with todays supply chain quality issues, going with the higher end core was cheap insurance.
66Satellite47
Well-Known Member
I'm sure your machinist knows a lot more than I do. As far as billet rollers, I'm livin in the past.
Hopefully the "high end" core does have better quality.
Hopefully the "high end" core does have better quality.
I don't know what core Comp uses. But my cam has over 850 passes. 285/292, .471 lobe. Spring pressure 305/810.
Doug
Doug
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
with those spring pressures, That’s a pretty strong testament, Doug. I assume you’ve had that cam for a number of years. It would be interesting to know what the industry standard is in core material.
I had never seen a cam simply break in two before I saw those pictures.
I’ve had a camshaft bust in 2, it all started with a dropped valve.
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
Cam is finally on its way, as I now have package tracking info from Summit. And with a little surprise….
When I paid for the upgraded core, I then got a call from Howards a few days later. They were calling to verify specs one last time before production, since it was now a “custom order”. Earlier in this process I had been very conservative with cam choice, wanting to make sure I didn’t give away too much torque since my car is somewhat heavy. Probably too conservative. I asked if I now had the ability to adjust the specs the answer was yes, so I moved to it to the following: 263* / 269* & .682 / .688 (with 1.6 rockers). Essentially 1 size larger on both lobes, but this spec combo was not available with a catalog item.
I’m now pretty happy about the way this evloved. Now if I can just get my machinist to get my stuff done, we’ll be on to some fun times.
Going to clean up in the shop and fit the transmission blanket this weekend.
HAPPY 2023, all!!
When I paid for the upgraded core, I then got a call from Howards a few days later. They were calling to verify specs one last time before production, since it was now a “custom order”. Earlier in this process I had been very conservative with cam choice, wanting to make sure I didn’t give away too much torque since my car is somewhat heavy. Probably too conservative. I asked if I now had the ability to adjust the specs the answer was yes, so I moved to it to the following: 263* / 269* & .682 / .688 (with 1.6 rockers). Essentially 1 size larger on both lobes, but this spec combo was not available with a catalog item.
I’m now pretty happy about the way this evloved. Now if I can just get my machinist to get my stuff done, we’ll be on to some fun times.
Going to clean up in the shop and fit the transmission blanket this weekend.
HAPPY 2023, all!!
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a lil' progress
66Satellite47
Well-Known Member
Seems to me, cam selection is almost always a bit of a guessing game. What looks good on the dyno may not really work at the track. That cam does look really good.
LemonWedge
Well-Known Member
Finally here……
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