My 1967 Belvedere Convertible Plans and Restoration (aka - Mad Scientist Build)

[conv67bdere]

Just think how much better nats will be next year when you can roll up in your own car! Keep doing what you're doing Kahn and this thing will be coming back together before you know it!

Thanks Goon ! ! That's a great goal - and I'll be shooting for it ! ! Got a lot of WORK ahead of me . . . one step at a time ! ! !

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What he said!

Thanks KB . . . I'm hoping I can make it . . . thanks for the support !

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Good to hear you fella's had a good time!

Thanks Prop . . . we sure did ! ! !

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Looking great man!, I bet the welders supply loves to see you! Im afraid im heading for the same compliments from mine lol.. Gots to do what we have to, But i totally believe what HYRDGOON said!! Yes sir!

LMAO . . yeah, welder supply know me by name now . . . Oh well, hope the metal work is winding down and the rebuild process will be starting soon ! !

 

[Mr.SpeedFreak]

Looking good kahn! Had to laugh at the "fort" thing, I had the exact same thought when I was sitting in that passenger side wheelwell that needed some love on my car. But for some reason I remember childhood forts involving a lot less metal slivers, rust dust, and welding burns.. maybe I was doing it wrong :icon_scratch:

Can't wait to see how much wheel and tire you can stuff under there!

 

[conv67bdere]

Finished the driver side mini tub . . .

Got to the shop, finally ( what a week ) and got a chance to work on the welding of the driver side mini tub - and got the last piece of metal welded in place.

Now, for a lot of grinding and pin hole "corrections" . . . but I can move on to the next project ! !



Man does that feel good to have that completed . . . ( sigh ) . . . finally ! ! !

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Looking good kahn! Had to laugh at the "fort" thing, I had the exact same thought when I was sitting in that passenger side wheelwell that needed some love on my car. But for some reason I remember childhood forts involving a lot less metal slivers, rust dust, and welding burns.. maybe I was doing it wrong :icon_scratch:

Can't wait to see how much wheel and tire you can stuff under there!

Speedy . . . WHERE have you been ! ! Glad to see that you didn't fall off the edge of the World ! !

Bigger boys means bigger ( more complicated ) forts ? ? ? LMAO . . .

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Almost forgot . . . my last trip up to visit 747 Mopar, had a "fun" little to-do at the sporting goods store that sold the bow we had on hold . . . but got my an upgraded bow at cost . . .

Here's the new addition to the "armory" . . . ( smile )



Having a blast with this new "toy" . . . don't think the squirrels have anything to fear . . . yet . . . LMAO

And a BIG thanks to 747 Mopar for all of his help with getting the bow and getting it sighted in . . . at least I can hit the target ! ! !

 

[conv67bdere]

Next project . . . need reinforcement for bucket seats . . .

My car was originally a bench seat, but I'll be swapping it out to bucket seats. Since the bench seat spanned the tunnel, and mounted at the outside edges, the mounting brackets for the bench seat work just fine - but they won't work for bucket seats. I need to make some reinforcements in the flooring to provide a stable mounting location for the (2) new inside holes that will support the bucket seat tracks near the tunnel.

To accomplish this, I've come up with the following plan of attack - which will be my next project on the car. A short time ago I posted these parts that I picked up from Hotchkis - they bent them up for me.



The shape of the bent tubing is to allow me to help transfer the weight and support the inside mounting of the bucket seats I plan on installing ( my car was originally a bench seat ) and I'll be converting it to bucket seats . . . Here's how they'll help out . . .



Then, by adding some additional support from the sub-frame connector to new tubing, I'll build a support that extends from one rocker panel to the other with the assistance of the sub-frame connectors, flat stock, and properly bent tubing . . . should really help the car stiffness too . . . Here I'm holding the parts in place as a mock-up of my plan . . .



Ahhh . . . but I'm not going to stop there . . . since I've got the "top" part of the semi-circle in place, I thought, why not make a drive shaft loop while I'm at it, and use that to build in the bucket seat support . . . so it'll fabricated to look like this . . .



Then . . . the back support for the bucket seat mounting will not be another loop - but just a semi-circle to help transfer the weight . . . as such . . .



I could always get another tube bent and make the rear one a loop also . . . if needed . . . we'll see how this works out . . .

That's my plan and I hope to stick to it ! ! ! It seems to hold together, and time will tell as I work through the install . . .

 

[747mopar]

I would ditch the flat stock and use the tubing there as well will brackets coming off of it for the seats. Reason being the flat stock will add almost nothing to the integrity of the car or do much for the strength of the loop. Your stress back there will be up and down as well as twisting all of which the flat will not help much. I like the idea and I really should put a drive shaft loop in mine as well (you ever drop a front universal at 70mph I have) but switching from flat to tubing will be a huge step up.

 

[Ron 73]

That does sound like a good idea, Ive never lost a drive shaft going to fast but from what ive read and heard, It is a good idea to have it right, makes the car more sinister and it is a Mopar, power demands safety!

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

I think a driveshaft loop is wise. Depending on how low you intend to have the car and the diameter of that tubing, take into acct where the shaft will land. If interference, you might consider not making of tubing, but getting a pre-fab loop made of plate.

As far as inner locating points for the seat mounts, this doesn't have to be over-engineered. How far away from the driveshaft tunnel do the inner mounting points land?

As far as the idea of 'adding stiffness' in this area, the trans/driveshaft hump provides much more stiffness than the flat sections of pan on each side of it. Reinforcing this area doesn't add effective stiffness to the pan as a whole, it will just add unnecessary weight. Also note that the primary load paths will be the subframe connectors and rocker boxes.

 

[conv67bdere]

Loop done . . .

To figure out how far down to make the loop, I placed the "old" trans cross member in place and measured down to the bottom of the member - this measured out to 9", so I used that as the maximum length for the loop that I was making . . . and it turned out pretty nicely . . .

Here's what I've got - held in place to see the overall look . . .



From this view, you can see that the bottom is in line with the bottom of the frames up front, the bottom of the trans cross member, and the bottom of the sub-frame connectors . . . if this gets hit by something, a lot more parts will be scraping on the bottom of the car along with it . . .

Think this is going to work . . .

 

[747mopar]

Looks good Kahn! Just to share what can happen when dropping a shaft I'll tell my story. I was in high school and driving a friends Polara (had a nice clunk when put in gear), we we're going about 70 down a straight (thank god) bumpy stretch of road when the *** end of the car shot about a foot in the air!!!! It landed straight and wouldn't respond to any throttle, while we coast off the road I'm playing out the senerios that could have caused this I thought the transmission had fallin out and we ran over it haha (that's exactly what it felt like and I wouldn't put it past his father in law to forget to bolt it in). Scary, allot of things could have happened to make it a worse situation. O.K. I've got to put one in too.

 

[conv67bdere]

Ok, maybe a little bit of a plan change . . .

Here's what the floor looks like where I'd like to reinforce it - I'm planning on welding the flat stock to the floor between the (2) whit arrows - the red arrow show where the floor rises inside the car . . .



It will lay down ( or up in this case ) against the floor like this picture . . .



I've got square tubing that I could add to the front of the flat stock to help stiffen it . . .



Or I could add this additional piece of flat stock to the front to help stiffen it up more . . .



Thoughts ? ? ? ? ? ? . . .

Agreed . . . don't want to over-engineer it, but I do want it to also help support the seats WELL ! ! !

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Looks good Kahn! Just to share what can happen when dropping a shaft I'll tell my story. I was in high school and driving a friends Polara (had a nice clunk when put in gear), we we're going about 70 down a straight (thank god) bumpy stretch of road when the *** end of the car shot about a foot in the air!!!! It landed straight and wouldn't respond to any throttle, while we coast off the road I'm playing out the senerios that could have caused this I thought the transmission had fallin out and we ran over it haha (that's exactly what it felt like and I wouldn't put it past his father in law to forget to bolt it in). Scary, allot of things could have happened to make it a worse situation. O.K. I've got to put one in too.

Sounds like it would attempting to pole vault with the car drive shaft . . . that does not sound like much fun at all . . .

 

[kb67mopar]

Don't weld two pieces of flat to make an angle, just buy a piece of angle channel. Personally if it was me I'd just add some 1/4" thick plate below the bolt holes and tie that to your new loop and sub frame connectors with some box tube (kinda like picture 3). That should be plenty and most bucket seat cars do not have nearly that much to bolt to.

I'd probably wait to do that lower half of the drive shaft loop though. You may find it may need modification later for your full swing of the axle and diameter of the shaft. I actually had to cut my H-pipe on the Coronet to fit the new drive shaft this weekend...so I have a built in loop made of exhaust tubing LOL. But the old shaft never hit.

 

[747mopar]

Agreed, every time I tried to get ahead of the game without all the parts it usually came back to bite me.

 

[carnalsupply]

Hey Larry,

A couple thoughts for you (sorry for the length, just had lots of thoughts rattling around)

1) After having installed my driveshaft loop I totally agree with KB; unless you know the rear suspension vertical travel measurement, or have a way to simulate the rear suspension movement, I would definitely not weld in the lower half of the loop until you have that info; it could come back to bite you.
2) Every little bit farther rearward you move from the front axle centerline makes a piece hanging below your car more susceptible to bottoming out, so even if the bottom of the driveshaft loop hangs only as low as the trans cross member it is still in more danger of grounding than the trans cross member itself.
3) 1/8" thick x 6" square plates are used for rollbar mounts, but they also make great floor reinforcements for mounting seats, etc. My Fury floors are all fabbed so none of the factory mounts or reinforcements are present so I used roll bar plates. A couple of benefits are: a) they spread the stress over a very large area, b) they actually help stiffen the floor once they're welded in, and c) they are thin enough that fabbing other pieces, like the chassis stiffener you mention, around them is a breeze.
4) After reading about your website issues I've got a site host I can highly recommend. I don't know if you still want/need a new host but if you do let me know; I have been using the same guy for 10 years without issue and with amazing customer support.

The Belve is looking awesome!!!!

Take care and I'll talk to you soon,

Bob

 

[Ron 73]

Im not planning on making a drive loop but i look forward to your progress on it, i do hope you never see it in operation because of what its made for, but, power is what it is and you never know, a monster of a power plant can be fun ill call it !

 

[conv67bdere]

Thanks for all the great advice about the drive shaft loop . . .

Well, everyone has provided a bunch of great advice on the drive shaft loop . . . but my "hope" and "plan" was to get this all welded in place while I've got the car stripped down and don't have to worry about starting anything on fire. Spent the last (2) days laying under the car, thinking of all your advice, and trying to come up with an answer to how to get this done . . .

So, I'm going to keep working forward, and IF I have to cut the bottom of the loop off and weld extensions in, I'll point back to these posts and let you know that YOU TOLD ME SO ! ! !

Getting the pieces fabricated and fitted in place, I've got the loop looking like this . . .



I'll be using both the flat stock and the square stock to add strength to the downward forces from the seat as suggested . . . thanks.



Here's just anther view of how it'll all fit together . . .



I'm welding these pieces together because I've got them already, and I already started cutting and fitting them - next time I'll buy angle iron and save the hassle . . . may also add the 1/8" 6 inch square flat stock inside the car ( if needed ) but his under the car will help with support !

Just trying to get this part done so I can move on to the NEXT one . . . Thanks for all the inputs and suggestions everyone.

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One year ago today . . .

Just noticed that I posted my first pictures of my car and the build on this forum 1 year ago today . . .

It's been a great year, I've got a lot done, I've come a long way, and I've met a BUNCH of new friends along the way . . . here's to the next year and everything that it has in store for me as I work toward completing this build and getting my car on the road ! ! !

Thanks to EVERYONE here at FBBO that is following my build and helping out when I've got questions - your help is invaluable and very much appreciated.

 

[kb67mopar]

ccasion14: Cheers to another year of pure thrashing automotive delight!

And happy FBBO ccasion13:

 

[tallhair]

Congratulations on the anniversary Khan! I've really enjoyed your build updates posts and look forward to checking out the continuing progress

 

[conv67bdere]

Progress . . . success with a "persuader" . . .

The rear upper part of the loop ( is that called a semi-loop ) would not fit in the tunnel as the tunnel got a little narrower as it moved backwards . . . and I was trying to figure out if I needed to cut the tunnel, to make the upper part fit, or how I was going to make it fit . . . so I got out the BFH ( actually it was a Medium - MFH ) and did a little bit of persuading on the tunnel . . . and it now fits ! ! !



And the view from the engine compartment looking backwards . . .



I think this is going to work . . .

front support is all welded in place, working on the rear one ( it'll only but the top part to help transfer the seat weight across the car ) . . . Here we go !

 

[kb67mopar]

Lol MFH.....I think MFH is an acronym for Motha ...... Hammer

Progress looks good. I can't wait for you to start the quarter work :happy1:

 

[747mopar]

Looks nice Kahn, that driveshaft isn't going anywhere.