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Mystery 440- Help!

Any of you guys know a great engine builder in AZ? If not, who would be a good online builder to buy a short block from?

I don't want to build the short block myself at this horsepower level given my inexperience with the 440. There are always little tricks that I am going to miss.
 
There are ways to proceed with what you have with out taking it apart, but you need to further investigate what you have.
I would suggest starting with a scope and taking a look inside at what piston you have. That will give you a ball park scr number with some research. Like mentioned proceed then with a Compression test. The engine builder saying 10:1 and forged rods doesn't mean much of anything, all bb mopars have forged rods???? As far as the crank being cast or steel...look at the damper shape. if your going to do boost, keep your rpms down and the odds of it surviving will increase tremendously....as is. Boost makes lots of torque. I get setting Hp goals...but realisticly your just talking a stock motor w manifolds here....do the best you can. Just do some simple research before you proceed bolting on a supercharger.
 
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I agree with the others that you need a little more info about what you have and I understand you do not want to pull the engine and take the car down for an extended amount of time. You want more power and don't care about gas mileage or "friendly drivability"?

First check your cranking compression, if it's a "mild street grind" you may be able to do better if cam is now mild and your compression is high enough. It would be really nice to know how far down in the hole the pistons are and know you compression, but you would likely need to pull a head to get accurate info. Then verify if you really have 3.9 gears and not 3.23s, if you don't have the 3.9s, get some.

You may be able to tailor the current engine package for more power with some bolt on stuff and make it more powerful without pulling the engine, such as a better suited cam and a well tuned carb.

That said, if you want to double the HP and don't want the down time, buy a complete quality done engine, or core block and start gathering parts and do a swap when you've got your ducks in line.
 
Thanks to everyone for your input!
 
BigLime said:
Well, I bought my 69 Charger about 4 years ago. It looks nice, but isn't where I want it to be.

Anyway, I know nothing about the 440 in it other than a short discussion with the engine builder (Who I was lucky enough to find.)

The 440 was a rebuild done around 2015. He couldn't remember much, except:

Forged Rods.
Forged Pistons- He remembers, he thinks, being flat tops. "Believes" about 10 to 1.
Doesn't know if the crank is forged or not.
He didn't know about the cam, but it is not stock and sounds like a mild street grind.
Balanced (At least that is positive)
Stock heads, no porting, new valves, etc...
Stock HP exhaust manifolds (Which I am keeping since I hate header issues.)
2 1/2 Full exhaust, no crossover.
No girdle, since it is a stock rebuild.

So...

I am going to fix my alternator and overheat issues and then get it over to a dyno. It moves "OK" and is probably around 350 HP or so.

I would like to get it up to 550-600 hp. This will be done with a power adder such as a TorqueStorm or Procharger as well as some performance mods.
Keep in mind please- I really, really do not want to pull the motor if the short block "looks" OK, but I need comments please!

I was thinking of doing the following:
Perhaps run a camera up the oil plug to verify if the crank is stock or forged.
Maybe, I can see some markings on the rods as to who they are?

Questions on the bottom end:
Can I change the rod bolts to ARP without having to remove the motor, maybe plasti-gauge to see what I get and then(ouch) pull the motor if it doesn't work out? My understanding is that any kind of stock bolts are a weak point on this engine.
Do I need a gridle at that HP? If so, it looks like I can get one in there without removing the block, but I am worried about the crank clearances changing.

If I can accomplish all this, my next step would be to pull the stock heads and CC the pistons/block/heads to see where I really are in terms of compression ratio.
Then, if I find that the comp. ratio is really around 10 to 1, get larger CC, performance heads to get the ratio to around 9 to 1 for the power adder. (Maybe a little thicker gasket?)

BTW- "Performance" clutch, he says, on stock rebuilt 4-speed, new driveshaft, rebuilt 8 3/4 with around 3:90.

What do you guys think?
Where do I start?
Do I really need to pull the motor?

I wanted to mention that I was a tried and true Chevy guy for many decades, so the 440 is a new adventure for me...

Any and all comments are appreciated!
Click to expand...
You can't replace rod bolts in the car, girttle needs to be machined to fit
 
BigLime said:
Here is an example that maybe some of you guys can explain. Indy Heads (which from my understanding is a very reputable builder) has this 750HP (572) motor for sale:
INDY CYLINDER

It is using a "MOPAR/CALLIES" iron block. From my research the Callies block is Indy heads buying the tooling from Mopar and just making standard iron blocks. I don't see how any engine with that kind of stroke and displacement on an iron block won't blow up on the street. Am I wrong??? Don't you need an aftermarket (Aluminum) block for that amount of HP?

Again guys, I am a Mopar newbie, so don't judge me too hard!!!
Click to expand...
That 572 has cross bolted mains, IMO you won't need a girdle on that block. I'm skeptical on B/RB girdles anyway. As for whether crank is forged or not, as mentioned above look at the harmonic balancer. If it's thin and not thick, it's probably forged and not externally balanced like a cast unit would be.

Chuck (snook)
 
Snook said:
That 572 has cross bolted mains, IMO you won't need a girdle on that block. I'm skeptical on B/RB girdles anyway. As for whether crank is forged or not, as mentioned above look at the harmonic balancer. If it's thin and not thick, it's probably forged and not externally balanced like a cast unit would be.

Chuck (snook)
Click to expand...
Thanks Snook. The Balancer is a thick one. Looks like a stock piece. So you are saying then, probably cast?

I'll find out soon enough anyway...
 
Its about 1" thick across the timing mark area. Pic. attached.
I can't tell much else until I pull the water pump, which I need to replace anyway. It you think its worthwhile, I'll pull the pulley on the bottom too, but I think a scope through the oil pan screw will tell me that story.
Still seems like stock to me, but you guys know better.

Balancer.JPG
 
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Actually, maybe it's a thin one?
BTW- The date code on the engine is a 1970 (440) if that helps. (The car was originally a 383.)
 
BigLime said:
Its about 1" thick across the timing mark area. Pic. attached.
I can't tell much else until I pull the water pump, which I need to replace anyway.
Still seems like stock to me, but you guys know better.

View attachment 1393027
Click to expand...
It looks like you have a damper for a forged crank likely w the standard Ly rods. That is what would be expected for a 70 engine that is a non hp( no hp stamp up top on the front bad.)
Engine looks really clean for a 2015 rebuild!
 
Curiousyellow71 said:
It looks like you have a damper for a forged crank likely w the standard Ly rods. That is what would be expected for a 70 engine that is a non hp( no hp stamp up top on the front bad.)
Click to expand...
That would be nice for forged. The builder did mention new rods, so we will see what he put in there. I am hoping to catch some markings on them when I scope the bottom end.

No HP stamp. (Although I thought that didn't affect the block anyway and was just the internals???)
 
Correct...hp is just a stamp, blocks are not different. A 70 440 hp should have the heavier rods like a six pack and be externally balanced. Hard to say what rods were used, hopefully you have a good aftermarket set with good bolts.
 
Curiousyellow71 said:
Correct...hp is just a stamp, blocks are not different. A 70 440 hp should have the heavier rods like a six pack and be externally balanced. Hard to say what rods were used, hopefully you have a good aftermarket set with good bolts.
Click to expand...
Is there anyway visually to tell what bolts I have? Maybe special markings on the head of the bolt?

Do ARP bolts have a special marking or perhaps a little different color? The motor only has 1K miles after the rebuild so maybe I can see something there.
 
OK, now I can't wait to find out. Draining the oil now and going to wait until tomorrow so that the internals are pretty oil free. I'll scope it then.

Thought you might like my sign since I am going a day or two without oil in the block.

No Oil.JPG
 
Looks Like ARP Bolts have markings, so hoping for the best when I scope it tomorrow...
I am sure all the experts here already know this.

I know some of you guys aren't in favor of it, but I would be happy to save the bottom end and not pull the motor. I am 60+ and it would suck for me.
My son could help but since I failed him as a child he knows nothing about engines or car work in general.
My bad! Too late now... :(
I am envious of the guys that have their sons or daughter work on their classics and enjoy it.

ARP Rod Bolts.jpg
 
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If the rods are truly aftermarket.. the bolts can't be stock.

Nice sign... smart man.
 
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