Road Trip Gulf Coast to NorCal

[bearman]

The hoses that were put in at the beginning of the build were not built or made for any type of fuel. It was on a spool in the shop that hasn't been touched in a long time. Dennis had trouble the real problem is the shop was already dealing with the ones before Dennis. They just never said anything long story short it wasn't until Dennis told them about the black stuff that they even put two and two together. Now it will be replaced with a stainless steel lines or something like that then the problem will be gone. For efi people we all better take a good look at it because it's coming and cost will get better as technical stuff just going to replace old hat carbs. Working on big dogs that run 1000000 miles that have efi even though they won't call it that. It was trail and error for awhile but for the most part works great. Now on to the new thing called d e f fuel treatment system most of us call it regen. Sorry for over loading the post. Dennis glad you made it home and thank you for being the mile for all of us. Now we can follow you so we don't make any mistakes because you have taken the guess work out of it thank you

 

[bearman]

After you get it back running make sure you change the fuel filter a couple times I'm the first 500 miles to get all the crap out of the lines. Also before you sign off on their fix you may want to have the injectors pop tested to make sure they are putting out the pressure and fuel the way they should. You don't want the injectors dripping fuel into the cyn after setting for awhile that starts a whole new problem. The tank people are getting off easy. So Everytime you talk to them remember the 2k you spent on it and remember those loving words your wife mentioned the tank shop should pick up the hole bill. The fix you can thank them but how much did the black stuff screw up that you won't see for months to come. Just a thought

 

[biomedtechguy]

Thinking out loud here, but did that 'oh so good' gas in Louisiana hasten the degradation of the internal fuel lines?

Jealous much?
I'll say "no"... How could pure gas cause line degradation? Usually it's the alcohol in ethanol laced fuels that cause rubber, plastic, etc to degrade.
100% pure is all I run in 2 classic cars. After resolving problems from previous owners, especially in the GTO, having used ethanol laced fuel with no or insufficient treatment, I either run pure gas or if I must use ethanol laced fuel I ALWAYS mix in Sta-Bil Marine 360.
No more problems. 3+ years.

 

[kiwigtx]

Jealous much?

I say this because here in NZ when the Gubbermint imposed non-leaded gas upon our citizens last century, many older cars had major fuel line issues. cars were catching fire and leaking gas all over the place. The difference in fuel chemistry caused the issues. It was a shock to most vehicles, with the exception being the new ones.

 

[bearman]

The fuel of today is like the oil we have more additive package then real fuel. But real fuel is something that most of us don't see anymore. Over the course of time rubber hose etc has been upgraded to handle of it. Now you put it in something that has a more pure components and it goes to crap. We live and learn the biggest thing we all should get out this is to make sure all parts work together.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

View attachment 856839

I say this because here in NZ when the Gubbermint imposed non-leaded gas upon our citizens last century, many older cars had major fuel line issues. cars were catching fire and leaking gas all over the place. The difference in fuel chemistry caused the issues. It was a shock to most vehicles, with the exception being the new ones.

Accept the fuel in Louisiana is closer to what was available when these cars were built... It's still unleaded but it's non-ethanol & decent octane.. Ethanol is what has really been tearing up rubber components in fuel systems...

The newer rubber hoses are rated for ethanol on the inside, they typically have a liner.. But the hose inside the fuel tank not only has pressurized fuel inside, It also lives submerged in gasoline... So it's actually the outer hose that deteriorates.... But there's also problems with the inner liner separating & collapsing..

 

[bearman]

This again is problems with hard starts, hot carbs etc. Even the big rigs having issues with the fuel they use also. Many fuel filter changes what use to be a 25 micron filter now must be 10 micron. Also the return lines are getting bigger and adding more fuel coolers. The purpose of this is to keep the fuel of course cooler so when it hits the injectors the fuel hits the cyn chamber at a cooler rate for the explode better which gives cleaner exhaust.

 

[Stephen Hotz]

The ethanol has been causing enough problems in Texas that you are advised to buy efi grade hose instead of the low pressure stuff even on carbed engines. Same symptoms inner/outer liner breakdown. Big problem here is if you just buy an efi pump and not the whole hanger and braket for a newer car there is a 2.5"-3" hose to connect the pump to the sending unit and you get pressure problems when it starts breaking down or it blows off.

 

[Hey-O]

If you want to get it right and the cheapest way in most case, do what car manufactures do. They do everything they can to save a buck and pass all governing bodies test from safety to fuel. The guy that did Dennis just wasn't thinking. I'm sure he didn't start out to screw anyone.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Totally agree. I had the similar thing happen but my vendor was Hot Rod City:

• First, I received my tank with metal shavings in the tank.
• Second, they used non-high pressure hose clamps on the short fuel lines so I had a pressure leak that was very difficult to find
• Third, the drain plug was galled and stripped so the first time I used it (to fix THEIR problem), I ended up with a leaky tank.

It doesn't seem building a tank with an integrated fuel pump should be that &%%#@! hard!

I had similar problems with my Hot Rod City Garage tank! Finally, someone else who can corroborate my experience. Three years ago I was getting set up to go EFI. I bought the stock dimension tank from Hot Rod City with internal baffling and internal pump. Man, the welds looked beautiful. I was impressed. Until I drove it ten miles that is. My issues included:

• Leaky drain plug
• The flange on the sender unit had pin-holes in the welded circumference that leaked. Upon removal, you could see daylight!!! WTF? How do you do such gorgeous welds on the tank and then screw that up? Maybe they bought that piece 3rd party?
• Big time leak at flange seal for internal pump hanger. No matter what type of gasket material I tried, it leaked. I had my go-to hot rod shop assist with installing this tank and trouble-shooting the leak issues. We pressure tested the tank out of the car and it was fine 3 different times. When re-mounting the tank and filling with the weight of the fuel, then running the car and letting it sit, it would leak out all over from that seal. Upon inspecting the tank, we surmised that the rectangular mounting surface that the round pump hangar flange seals against was flexing as the tank hung upside down. That rectangular piece of welded aluminum was much thinner gauge than that of the sending unit. Not sure why. I've been keeping the tank in hopes that it could be repaired because it is 95% one beautiful piece and I like the internal baffling even with my current carb setup.

All of those tank R&R's to trouble-shoot these issues cost me almost as much as the tank itself, which was around $900 with pump included. For the foreseeable future, I plan to keep my carb setup. It's a shame because I only get 5 mpg and have to run the California ethanol laced fuel.
Does that Stable fuel additive really work well to counter-act the ethanol lacing?

 

[biomedtechguy]

If I can leave this here....
Since quality and materials of some "well known" EFI specific and/or otherwise performance oriented fuel tank manufacturers has been introduced into the conversation, if Dennis doesn't mind,
who has the best proven reputation for making high quality aftermarket fuel tanks, and why would you say so? Who should be avoided like an incurable STD?
My stock (afaik) new looking fuel tank is working fine it seems, but I may go EFI eventually.
Thanks...

 

[Cranky]

All this is just so outer limits! I remember when the alcohol in gas was just starting to show up here and there and a local station that I traded with put stickers on the pump but where they were really hard to see.....like where two pumps were real close, he placed the stickers in that little area and really low. After rebuilding my DP Holley for the 3rd time I want over there and hunted all over the pump and found them. The guy running the place was there and he got an ear full and I told everyone that would listen what was going on and about 6 months later, they closed down. Don't know if me telling a bunch of people about it had anything to do with it but I sure hope it did!

 

[Dennis H]

Ricks Tanks is a high quality tank. Just plumbed wrong. Poor QA, and now not feeling any love.
Someone’s head should roll there. Remember, this is a higher capacity custom build that bolted right in with no dimensional issues.

 

[bearman]

Dennis you're going to have a real talk to the tank place. If you really want to pressure him start a search for the other folks before you and after you who ended up they same way. Remember thousands of dollars spent and all you get is I'm sorry. Put the shoe on your foot how many people would have got I'm sorry from Dennis if this was his product. That's right no one Dennis you would done everything possible to make sure your clients was done right the first time. Yes **** happens and I'm guilty of it myself. But as Rick does this for a living I just believe he short cutted yours and others. Each one of knows when it comes to modifing something we have to look at all angles and then we ask each other of the pros and cons. That's why this forum is here to find answers. Example if Dennis called his body man and ask him to build a tank and it screwed up I get the I'm sorry deal. But Dennis researched this out and checked into it. Rick's tanks screwed up if this was the first time Rick ever did efi I could say I get it but it's not this is his living. Sorry for the ranting but this 20cent hose cost alot of time and money. Just think if they would have drove to the show they would have not made it. Them the cost of that would have been even more. Dennis just saying sorry of I stepped on any toes or got up in the face to much. Again I'm glad you had a great time and sorry about the break downs you and your wife had to go thru

 

[biomedtechguy]

Rick does this for a living I just believe he short cutted yours and others.

THIS!

thousands of dollars spent and all you get is I'm sorry.

NOT SATISFACTORY!
The manufacturer/seller has got to "make you whole"!
I would have, at this point, with the totally unacceptable response (as I understand it) I would have already spoken with my lawyer about suing them for not only correcting the problem with the product they sold you, but also the subsequent damage caused to other components, lost vacation time, towing, labor and parts at Ballman's that the defective product caused you to incur, and finally pain, suffering, and intense mental anguish inflicted upon you by your traveling companion as a result of the defective product causing her anguish and fear of being stranded on the roadside in the middle of a lifeless, dangerous desert environment full of poisonous insects, reptiles, and harsh, life threatening and health diminishing weather conditions that when considered "in toto" have undoubtedly stripped precious years from your vibrant life...
(well at least some or all of that, to varying degrees)

 

[threewood]

If I can leave this here....
Since quality and materials of some "well known" EFI specific and/or otherwise performance oriented fuel tank manufacturers has been introduced into the conversation, if Dennis doesn't mind,
who has the best proven reputation for making high quality aftermarket fuel tanks, and why would you say so? Who should be avoided like an incurable STD?
My stock (afaik) new looking fuel tank is working fine it seems, but I may go EFI eventually.
Thanks...

I have used exactly one, and it was pretty affordable (rebate + Summit discount), sealed the first time, included pump, pick-up and sender, beautifully powder coated, perfect fit for my 69....Holley Sniper EFI tank. Very happy with it. I'm using it in conjunction with a FPR to feed an 800 cfm AVS2 carb.

 

[GetX'd]

Ditto what they said......

 

[Richard Cranium]

Your troubles have pretty much cancelled my thoughts of EFI'ing an old car. For the amount of driving I do, I'll stick with the 50+ year old carburetor.

 

[HawkRod]

Your troubles have pretty much cancelled my thoughts of EFI'ing an old car. For the amount of driving I do, I'll stick with the 50+ year old carburetor.

RC, I have fuel injection in my car, and I caution people about doing it. As I have stated before, there are absolutely some great advantages about it, especially when you combine that with computer controlled timing. BUT, this is not an easy swap, and stupid stuff like these tank issues make it harder.

I'll repeat what I have said before: If you are just going to drive around town/ shorter distances, then stick with an old fashioned carb. If you are going to drive extensively in different weather, different altitudes, etc., then the FI (done right) is worth it.

Hawk

 

[moparedtn]

First of all, a great big THANK YOU to Dennis and company for this Great travelogue!!
I just went through the whole thing front to back and feel like I did the proverbial virtual tour
along with you (yes, including the she-issues ).

As others have said, I learned the hard way about the old school "rubber" fuel line versus the "certified
for use with fuel injection" fuel line not too long ago when a friggin hose that wasn't far from new
collapsed on my own carb'ed GTX.
You couldn't SEE the collapse inside the line, so diagnosing was a pain...
When I started removing lines from the car, the black crap was coming off in my hands!!
I've since replaced all the soft lines on the car again and now only put the non-ethanol gas in it ($3/gallon
for 93 octane here).

You'd think someone in the business would KNOW about such things. Apparently they didn't - or didn't care.
One or the other. I'd be having me some *** right about now if I was a victim of Rick's....