Subframe Connectors and unibodies

[Rusty34]

The best design would be a body which is not permitted to bend and twist. You would then tune for either ride quality or handling capability with suspension design, spring and shock absorber selection and tire choice. Of course a perfectly stiff body and chassis is not possible in the real world but engineering can get close. They measure chassis stiffness in units of Hz. For example, in looking at Corvette development over the years you can see how engineering chased body and chassis stiffness from about 1984 to present day. I believe the early C4 Corvettes came in at over 10-12 Hz and with each newer generation chassis stiffness was improved to the point where they are less than 2Hz now.

 

[BigLime]

A stiffer chassis is better but to what extent do you stop at stiffening it? Unless you’re a full blown racer of some sorts a lot of people are over killing their cars with these stiffening kits and suspension. My buddy runs a level 3 car tool set up with the biggest Hotchkis T-Bars and sway bars you can put on a car and he absolutely hates it and 1 ride in it compared to mine and you’ll understand why. I’ve had the old school home made 2x3 tubular sub-frame connectors in mine for probably 20 years and what a difference they do make. If you do subframe connectors you don’t need torque boxes or anything else and the only way I’d ever stiffen the front of a car would be for a coil over set up which I hate. So along with a with my sub frame connectors I’m running PST 1.03 T-bars, 1 1/8 Hellwig SA, Qa1 upper and lower tubular arms, Qa1 strut rods, C-body tie rods and Viking shocks and the car rides awesome.

Is it just the Level 3 Car Tools that he really hates or did he do it at the same time as the Hotchkis and it's both that he hates?

 

[70ChargerRT]

Is it just the Level 3 Car Tools that he really hates or did he do it at the same time as the Hotchkis and it's both that he hates?

Id say it’s mostly the Hotchkis stuff but after riding in mine he realizes it was way over kill with the level 3 kit and going with those big T-Bars and Sway Arms and yes he did it all of the same time. I’m telling you anything but subframe connectors are overkill unless it’s a full blown race car of some sorts. It’s crazy how subframe connectors stiffen these cars up.

 

[icetech]

Sorry to bring up a slightly old thread but had a couple of quick questions.. I was looking at USCT and they have a kit for 62-65 plymouth/dodge connectors but it excludes 63-64 dodge? i figured they would all be the same floorpan? I am only planning on MAYBE 500hp/3.55s and ET streets if i need them.. i like traction not smoke Not sure if i even need connectors but would rather consider it now while my carpet is all out..
Has anyone used the USCT ones on a '62 without fit issues? I love the idea of them.. my last challenger had them cut into the floor and it was stiff but i hated the lump in the carpet.. although it didn't matter in the end..

Thanks guys

USCT1M1018-Level 1 Chassis Stiffening Kit 62-65 Dodge Plymou

store.uscartool.com

 

[33 IMP]

I did home-made connectors for my 62 savoy, but IMO poorly done. I won't redo them however.
I did tie the connectors thru the floor to the eight point rollbar that is also tied to front and rear subframes.
If I were to do them again, I would use the car tools, or at least go thru the floor with homemade connectors.

 

[icetech]

I did home-made connectors for my 62 savoy, but IMO poorly done. I won't redo them however.
I did tie the connectors thru the floor to the eight point rollbar that is also tied to front and rear subframes.
If I were to do them again, I would use the car tools, or at least go thru the floor with homemade connectors.

Yeah, i hadn't considered it until i was doing some reading today and i noticed recently my passenger door, the front top of the vent window frame is hanging a little when i close the door.. when i bought the car it closed like a new car, it's been on jack stands for 8 months so i think it actually flexed a bit, i didnt' think they were that easy to flex (Jackstands near the trans crossmember so the whole weight of the motor is pushing down off that fulcrum) going to drop it onto wheels tonight and let it settle and see if that door is better.. if it flexes that easily i'm gonna put in connectors for sure cause that's nuts to me.

 

[33 IMP]

62s were the thinnest/lightest b-bodys ever built. I can play my roof panel like a steel drum, it'll oilcan if you look at it.
Even for any kind of spirited street use, I would recommend any and all chassis strengthening an owner is willing to do. Sub connectors, torque boxes, etc.
Edit: especially hardtops! Two door sedan is a bit stiffer. More doors, fewer posts, more work to make it solid.

 

[icetech]

62s were the thinnest/lightest b-bodys ever built. I can play my roof panel like a steel drum, it'll oilcan if you look at it.
Even for any kind of spirited street use, I would recommend any and all chassis strengthening an owner is willing to do. Sub connectors, torque boxes, etc.

Yeah.. i was shocked when the title of my car said 3050# just.. holy crap it's a tin can

So i just called USCT to see if they had any promos running (Every penny counts) and the people there are super nice.. no promos but he did say they are actually raising prices soon.. soo if anyone is on the fence i would order sooner than later Mine are on order.. I am SOO glad i saw this today or i would have been pissed pulling my carpet again

P.S. i saw them installed on a ep of GYC this morning the guy welded every inch to the floor, seems like a 2" bead every 3-4" would do just as well? just curious.. overkill is fine but welding on my back less is a nice thing (obviously cept full weldes on the actually frame connections...

BTW. back to my original post... the guy on the phone said he thought the 63-64 dodge has a different kick up near the rear seat that's why it's excluded..

 

[33 IMP]

Well, those posted weights are usually fantasy land. They're light, but not THAT light!

 

[icetech]

Well, those posted weights are usually fantasy land. They're light, but not THAT light!

You callin my car tubby!
Well.. i was trying to get under 3000 with a alum head small block but yeah doubt that will happen.. doesn't really matter in the end. Still a damn light car.

Whats funny is my GM die hard friend always tells me how heavy mopars are... and how my car is a boat... showed him that #3050

 

[33 IMP]

Wanna find out how stiff your (or anybodies) car is? Jack up one front corner off the ground, and see if the rear on that side comes up too, and if you can open and close the door.

 

[4406bbl]

Wanna find out how stiff your (or anybodies) car is? Jack up one front corner off the ground, and see if the rear on that side comes up too, and if you can open and close the door.

Well to be honest even the e-bodies cannot be jacked up like that and not at least have a tight door close. All of these cars need frame connectors. You can make your own out of 2x3 tube and cut them down at the rear floor and shape them with cardboard template. I would also fabricate some steel to tie in the front spring hanger brackets, add front spring hanger box reinforcement, make some front torque boxes, add a welded rear driveshaft loop, frame reinforcements at the rear spring hanger, and a lot of 1" long welds in the rear spring box areas and where the front frame rails meet the floor pan and rockers. I would also full weld the rear spring mount to the rocker.

 

[4406bbl]

If you are doing this with the engine in be sure it is sitting on stands with the suspension compressed, none of this front or rear wheels just hanging or jackstands clear out by the bumpers.

 

[icetech]

If you are doing this with the engine in be sure it is sitting on stands with the suspension compressed, none of this front or rear wheels just hanging or jackstands clear out by the bumpers.

Yup.. lesson learned. i did not think it would flex this bad on jackstands.. i will do it on wheels as much as i can then back on stands on the suspension this time and finish it up.. i am hoping it will (unflex) when i put it back on the ground tonight.. i'm sure it will but i do need to worry bout stuff

P.S. i'm glad USCT exists... they make some damn cool products.. not cheap but if they fit as well as i have seen i will be super happy

 

[4406bbl]

If they even fit halfway they will save you a ton of work. If the rear floor is deeper on your car than the other models just trim them down, cut the floor out weld a piece of 1-5/8" rollback tubing inside and weld the floor back down level. I did my e-body that way with 2x3 trimmed and no floor cutting. You can jack 3 corners of it off the ground and the doors and windows operate normally. If us cartools stuff had been available at that time I would have used them.

 

[icetech]

If they even fit halfway they will save you a ton of work. If the rear floor is deeper on your car than the other models just trim them down, cut the floor out weld a piece of 1-5/8" rollback tubing inside and weld the floor back down level. I did my e-body that way with 2x3 trimmed and no floor cutting. You can jack 3 corners of it off the ground and the doors and windows operate normally. If us cartools stuff had been available at that time I would have used them.

Yeah, i didn't know about them til this morning... i have watched a bunch of installs on youtube now and it looks like minor trimming and away you go.. although people not using plug welds on the sides where it goes over the rear frame bothers me.. but i tend to think of worst case scenarios and overkill everything..

P.S. like this for anyone else that hasn't seen em

 

[4406bbl]

Sounds like you will do a proper install then with overkill. What little dirt tracking I was involved with there is no such thing as overkill when welding these cars, especially where the front frame rails meet the floor and crossmember, need plenty of 1" ers there as the spot welds always came loose.

 

[dvw]

My sons 62. All stock interior and body. With 360, Turbocharger, Eddy aluminum heads, aluminum (intake, radiator, valve covers), 727, Dana, 6 point rollbar, full 4" single exhaust was about 3550 w/o driver.
Doug

 

[icetech]

My sons 62. All stock interior and body. With 360, Turbocharger, Eddy aluminum heads, aluminum (intake, radiator, valve covers), 727, Dana, 6 point rollbar, full 4" single exhaust was about 3550 w/o driver.
Doug

well.. that Dana does add 500#

 

[hunt2elk]

Yeah, i didn't know about them til this morning... i have watched a bunch of installs on youtube now and it looks like minor trimming and away you go.. although people not using plug welds on the sides where it goes over the rear frame bothers me.. but i tend to think of worst case scenarios and overkill everything..

P.S. like this for anyone else that hasn't seen em

Make sure to address the missing provision for the e-brake cable in the US Cartool connectors before you get to the paint mode. I also modified the cutouts for brake and gas lines.....