Subframe Connectors and unibodies

[icetech]

Make sure to address the missing provision for the e-brake cable in the US Cartool connectors before you get to the paint mode. I also modified the cutouts for brake and gas lines.....

Yup, although i'm 99% sure on the 62' the e-brake cable comes out more toward the center and shouldn't be an issue... You know whats funny is being in michigan i don't think i have ever had a old car with a e-brake that actually worked.. every single one had frozen cables.. i'm a little excited by having one that still moves

 

[Dave6T4]

The first time I saw factory torque boxes were under 1953 to 1964 Studebaker"lowboy" coupes and Hawks. These cars were noticeably lower than any of their competition at the time. Some of this was accomplished by turning the normal frame rails on their side. That is, the Studebaker frame rails were wide, but fairly shallow.It seemed like a good idea at the time. but this shallow frame lacked a lot of torsional rigidity, making the car feel lile a "Flexy Flyer" when driving it. Studebaker's quick fix was to weld torque boxes to the floors of their new coupes. These boxes were on each side of the frame, on both sides of the car, for four long torque boxes to stiffen the car body itself.
I purchased and had installed a set of U.S. Car Tool connecters that weld both to the floor and subframes of my 1964 Polara 4-door hardtop. I figured that without a full floor to roof B-pillar, this would firm up my car. I can't wait to get it on the road this year to see if I can feel a difference.

 

[Dave6T4]

Make sure to address the missing provision for the e-brake cable in the US Cartool connectors before you get to the paint mode. I also modified the cutouts for brake and gas lines.....

This only a concern on '66 and up B-body. I had a set welded to my '64 Polara, and nothing interfered. E-brake cables are all inside the added connectors and gas and brake lines are all outside.

 

[hunt2elk]

This only a concern on '66 and up B-body. I had a set welded to my '64 Polara, and nothing interfered. E-brake cables are all inside the added connectors and gas and brake lines are all outside.

Yes, mine went in a 1969 model. I didn't realize the earlier years had a different line routing configuration.

 

[icetech]

Yes, mine went in a 1969 model. I didn't realize the earlier years had a different line routing configuration.

Yeah, comes out just left of the middle of the crossmember then about 10" splits into a Y to each frame near the axle.. so nothing down the frame rails

 

[icetech]

you know... i was just thinking.. this way leaves the cables in the open and under the driveshaft... i can see why they changed it

 

[Lefty71]

this way leaves the cables in the open and under the driveshaft... i can see why they changed it

Everything is learned thru experience..... imagine the ice burgs that could hang from them lol.
I remember reading that the purpose of the slot at the carburetor end of the kickdown rod is also because of ice..... if your kickdown built up ice on a long highway ride in a storm, it could effectively prevent the throttle from closing without that slot at the carb end.... Ouch!!

 

[icetech]

Everything is learned thru experience..... imagine the ice burgs that could hang from them lol.
I remember reading that the purpose of the slot at the carburetor end of the kickdown rod is also because of ice..... if your kickdown built up ice on a long highway ride in a storm, it could effectively prevent the throttle from closing without that slot at the carb end.... Ouch!!

Didn't know that either

 

[nodust]

62s were the thinnest/lightest b-bodys ever built. I can play my roof panel like a steel drum, it'll oilcan if you look at it.
Even for any kind of spirited street use, I would recommend any and all chassis strengthening an owner is willing to do. Sub connectors, torque boxes, etc.
Edit: especially hardtops! Two door sedan is a bit stiffer. More doors, fewer posts, more work to make it solid.

62 is maybe 100-125 pounds lighter than a equivalent equipped 63 Plymouth. The reason you can play drums on the 62 roof is because it is profiled flat.

 

[icetech]

62 is maybe 100-125 pounds lighter than a equivalent equipped 63 Plymouth. The reason you can play drums on the 62 roof is because it is profiled flat.

yeah, kind of surprised mine isn't dented or warped... really happy bout that.

 

[hunt2elk]

This only a concern on '66 and up B-body. I had a set welded to my '64 Polara, and nothing interfered. E-brake cables are all inside the added connectors and gas and brake lines are all outside.

Yes, mine went in a 1969 model. I didn't realize the earlier years had a different line routing configuration.

 

[ckessel]

you know... i was just thinking.. this way leaves the cables in the open and under the driveshaft... i can see why they changed it

One of the many planned changes for my 65. Going to bring them down the side then split from a yoke near the springs.

 

[TT from NH]

Again, mine are not welded to the floor pan but I did put seam sealer at the edges to fill the gaps.

Kern Dog, is there a reason you didn't weld the subframe connectors (and the torque boxes) to the floor pan? And for you and anyone else, after I saw that the Stiffener Kit (which includes subframe connectors and front and rear torque boxes) was $642 on Classic Industries, I'm thinking of making my own. What are the pros and cons of making these yourself?

 

[eldubb440]

What are the pros and cons of making these yourself?

time and convenience ....... and you have to run around and buy the steel anyway.....and figure it all from sratch.... USCT, see the back and sides thread

 

[33 IMP]

I made mine, and they could have/should have, been done much better. If I had to do it again, I'd use the us car tool stuff.
Tha saving grace of my rather shabby install, is that the subframe connectors are welded to the eight point roll bar in the car.
It makes for a pretty solid install, in a post 2dr car.

 

[Kern Dog]

Kern Dog, is there a reason you didn't weld the subframe connectors (and the torque boxes) to the floor pan?

I had my full interior still in the car and had read that welding to the floor produced little change over welding at each end. I was a Carpenter and my years of experience with wood framing showed that with a framed wall that has a top horizontal member and a bottom horizontal member with studs placed vertically in between, adding a sheet of plywood over the structure and placing nails through the plywood into every 2 x 4 dramatically increases the resistance to torsional movement (parallelogramming)

To me, the welding to the floor was similar to nailing the plywood to the studs to reduce this and it seemed unnecessary. My theory was that the front of the car doesn't sway left with the rear swaying right.
I felt that the connectors resisted twist and fore/aft pull or compression.

I'm thinking of making my own. What are the pros and cons of making these yourself?

Cost is the main difference for me. If you can do the fabrication yourself, you can do this for a fraction of the price.

 

[Encswsm]

Kern Dog, is there a reason you didn't weld the subframe connectors (and the torque boxes) to the floor pan? And for you and anyone else, after I saw that the Stiffener Kit (which includes subframe connectors and front and rear torque boxes) was $642 on Classic Industries, I'm thinking of making my own. What are the pros and cons of making these yourself?

Heres a video with Chris Birdsong making some serious Sub frame connectors.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I had my full interior still in the car and has read that welding to the floor produced little change over welding at each end. I was a Carpenter and my years of experience with wood framing showed that with a framed wall that has a top horizontal member and a bottom horizontal member with studs placed vertically in between, adding a sheet of plywood over the structure and placing nails through the plywood into every 2 x 4 dramatically increases the resistance to torsional movement (parallelogramming)

View attachment 1651325

To me, the welding to the floor was similar to nailing the plywood to the studs to reduce this and it seemed unnecessary. My theory was that the front of the car doesn't sway left with the rear swaying right.
I felt that the connectors resisted twist and fore/aft pull or compression.


Cost is the main difference for me. If you can do the fabrication yourself, you can do this for a fraction of the price.

I agree. I also had the interior in my car and my sub-frame connectors are welded at each end only. The difference with mine is I used tubular instead of rectangular connectors. The tubulars resist twist better (by how much I'm not sure). Some companies offer bolt-in connectors that bolt up on each end instead of welding. Seems like a recipe for loosening over time so I avoided using that type.

 

[TT from NH]

Heres a video with Chris Birdsong making some serious Sub frame connectors.

I like what he did here. I might give it a shot. Thanks!

 

[TT from NH]

Well, that was pretty slick. I watched Birdsong's video and then another one with more specs and built my own.

1) I bought two 1/8" thick 2"x2" steel rectangular tubing 6' long:

2) I created a template to see where to notch the crossmember (the connector is in line with the rear frame; I clamped a board to the rear frame to act as a guide):

3) I penciled in the notch in the crossmember and drilled holes in the corners:

4) I cut the section out with a cutoff wheel and test-fitted using the wooden template:

5) I cut and ground the 2"x2" tube to fit the back...:

6) ...and the front (the front frame rails start narrowing so the connector is cut/ground to match the frame rail):

7) I am not going to weld these in yet as I have to replace the floor pans and want the space to work. I will close off the front of the connectors with some metal and, when ready, weld the connectors to the frame at the front, the crossmember, and the rear frame.

$65 and about four hours worth of work so far! (I will need to drill a hole in the driver's side connector and fit with a sleeve to allow the emergency brake cable through but that's for another day .

Thanks all for the tips!