Legal issue with VIN on a B-J car today?

[Black_Sheep]

One thing is for certain, the resale value of the car without VIN and fender tag is greatly diminished. I think if the state had any real evidence that fraud had been committed, they would have seized the vehicle, not just removed the numbers. To support this argument, the state apparently issued a bonded title for the vehicle.

I agree, losing the VIN and fender tag destroys the collector value. Considering the numerous other shortcomings $55K would be too much for that car..

 

[dart4forte]

Generally auto auction laws are set by the state, the auction is licensed by the state, state law says that when the gavel drops the sale is final. So there isn't even any possibility of arbitration of a contract between the seller and the auction. The seller would have to try to go after the state - and good luck with that one...

As an auction house, if the state came in and cut the vin off of a car that was entered into an auction, I would think that they would withdraw the vehicle from the auction and possibly charge the seller a fee. I would certainly think that continuing to run the vehicle would throw a bad light on the auction house.

What if a remote bidder had paid for an inspection BEFORE the VIN was cut off and didn't re-check the listing before bidding? They would be under the impression that the car had a VIN and a fender tag. I kind of have a hard time having sympathy for anyone dumping auction money on these old cars that aren't really that nice to begin with though. It doesn't mean that I wish ill on anybody though. I certainly don't think highly of the auction houses that drive up costs of what should be a much more affordable hobby.

Thankfully it seems like the prices on old junk and used parts are not as inflated as they have been.

In Arizona DPS watches the auctions like a Hawk. The auction houses are regulated and could lose their dealer license if a fraud deal takes place. BJ had an issue with a Hemi E body years ago, the car actually went across the block then it was impounded. Turns out, a least the story I got was the vin tag got jacked from a car in process of a resto somewhere in the NE and ended up on a like vehicle being done in Canada. It slipped through. I’m sure Craig broke open his check book to make it go away. After that, another acquaintance of mine who worked for Russo Steeletold me all the dealers were put on notice and told the DPS was watching them closely. Undercover state troopers. When I sold my 71 RR IN 2016 Russo had an impound lot fenced in full of cars with questionable documents. My guess is the DPS as well as the FBI is doing a deep dive on that car.

 

[NoCar2023]

It's odd that they created such a convincing patina on the VIN plate, yet the numbers are misaligned by one space to the left. Ma Mopar would never make a mistake like this.

 

[NoCar2023]

Is this one also fake? Asking for a friend.

 

[dadsbee]

Yep, lots of weird **** out there. I have no doubts the verts VIN tag was made on the production line. ? is, does the dash belong to the car.. lol

 

[nitro_rat]

Is this one also fake? Asking for a friend.
View attachment 1795989

'71 Canadian Dart Custom 2D HT with a 318? There's one really worth cloning!



Just goes to show the VIN tag could be legit.

 

[moparvinson]

Yep, lots of weird **** out there. I have no doubts the verts VIN tag was made on the production line. ? is, does the dash belong to the car.. lol

I once looked at a 73 road runner and thought it was a U code gtx roadrunner? Door sticker and fender tag showed G 318 car, looked again and 5th digital on dash was clearly a V but every other number matched?????

 

[NoCar2023]

They performed a VIN swap with a car that had a body number just one digit off from the original.
Lucky, I guess.

 

[nitro_rat]

@NoCar2023 that's the only tag I've seen with the number offset like that but it goes to show that it can/did happen.

Yep, lots of weird **** out there. I have no doubts the verts VIN tag was made on the production line. ? is, does the dash belong to the car.. lol

The body number stamped on the core support on the 'Vert is 9G304552 and it looks like a legit original stamping. The VIN is 9G104552.

There are two possibilities here:

1. Whoever stamped the number at the factory made a mistake. This is documented to have happened before.

2. There was a 69 GTX Convertible built with an offset stamped VIN on the tag ending in 9G304552.
There was a second vehicle built in St Louis EXACTLY 200,000 units later, most likely a convertible also.
At some point in the future, someone got a hold of both cars and swapped the errantly stamped VIN from 9G104552 on to the shell of 9G304552.

I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor. Scenario 1 has a MUCH greater probability than scenario 2 which is almost impossible.

Somebody needs to peel back the trunk weatherstrip on that car and see what the rear body number is. If it's 9G104552 they need to give the owner his tags back.

If it's 9G304552, it's still possible that the same hungover guy carried the same set of stamps around the back of the car that he stamped the front of the car with. It looks like it was scheduled for 8/9/68 which was a Friday. Perhaps it was actually assembled on the morning of the 10th...

 

[QuickBpBp]

They performed a VIN swap with a car that had a body number just one digit off from the original.
Lucky, I guess.

A member earlier said the car was hit hard in the front. It's possible that is a donor radiator support from a donor car that just happened to have those numbers on it... Or it's the original with a mis-stamp. You just never know.

 

[dadsbee]

It had a bonded title and was registered as rebuilt ! Period. Many states make you get a State mfg VIN tag for that, possible that nothing more than such is going on. We can spin this for months here...

 

[MarPar]

No mention of the trunk gutter numbers...

 

[RR Fan Dan]

18min 20ec to say nothing on that video.

 

[moparedtn]

18min 20ec to say nothing on that video.

For starters, would you have known about the situation otherwise?

 

[1STMP]

18min 20ec to say nothing on that video.

Other than the mispositioned vin #
on the tag and amismatched
vin number on the rad support.
Surprised they didn't peel the
trunk weatherstripping. That may
have cleared things up a bit.
As @dadsbee stated....we could spin
this one for months. It's obvious
something about the vin# grabbed
their attention.

 

[68BabyBlue]

No mention of the trunk gutter numbers...

Recently had this discussion with a fellow member here. My advice - no gutter number, no deal. Glue is cheap, cars are not.

 

[dadsbee]

Recently had this discussion with a fellow member here. My advice - no gutter number, no deal. Glue is cheap, cars are not.

Gutter # isn't always an easy deal. I went 29 years with my Superbird thinking there were none there until I grew the balls to gently sand the area! Stamped so light and hidden by paint you'd better go gentle!

 

[1STMP]

It had a bonded title and was registered as rebuilt ! Period. Many states make you get a State mfg VIN tag for that, possible that nothing more than such is going on. We can spin this for months here...

Adding to the spin....
If the original title turned up the holder
could claim the car as (his). The entire
purpose for a bonded title. One of the
risks of the bonded title route.

 

[68BabyBlue]

Gutter # isn't always an easy deal. I went 29 years with my Superbird thinking there were none there until I grew the balls to gently sand the area! Stamped so light and hidden by paint you'd better go gentle!
View attachment 1796024

Baby Blue is/was the same situation. No question the radiator support and trunk gutter were original to the car, but they carried light stamps hidden by paint. At the prices the car changed hands, it wasn’t an issue.

 

[JackR]

I looked at that GTX. So strange the vin was removed.