Speaker suggestions for a decent sound system

[Lionized]

Thanks for that extensive explanation.

What sounds good to me may sound terrible to you. In my own experience with installing car audio, JBL speakers appeal to the most people.
I would expect someone looking for opinions on a classic car forum would also do his own research on car audio forums.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I'm eager to hear your recommendations.

Start here:
sensitivity: 96 dB at 2.83 volts
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-NlTd0MB5ysB/shopsearch/jbl_car_speaker.html?XVINQ=GW1&XVVer=2UH&awcp=1t1&awcr=309960050284&awdv=m&awkw=jbl car speakers&awmt=e&awnw=g&awug=9025216&gclid=Cj0KCQiAxfzvBRCZARIsAGA7YMw39Opc1hR2ycpLK-4Wgq-T7H3F5DAgBOerYjDTsxrKXpJeqOXwUh0aAs3UEALw_wcB&pg=2
The higher this number, the less power required to achieve volume.
For each dB the number drops, you have to double power output to achieve the same volume.
For example, if the speaker is rated at 96dB/1w/1m that means it puts out 96dB with 1 watt of power, mic 1 meter away.
If a speaker is rated at 92dB, 93=2w, 94=4w, 95=8w, 96=16w so it takes 16 watts to drive a 92dB efficiency speaker to the same volume as 1 watt in a 96dB speaker. Take that a couple of more dB up in volume, 97dB is 32w for the 92dB speaker, 2w for the 96. 98dB is 64w, vs 4w. 99dB is 128w vs 8, and by 100db the 92 is pulling 256w vs 16w.
My home speakers range from 98 to 102dB w/m.
You should hear them at 200wpc, and it's worth noting that I use a powered subwoofer, so in a car, if you have a stand alone powered subwoofer, you can crossover the bass to the sub, which means more power available to and more efficient use of your smaller speakers when they don't have to try to reproduce deep bass, say 40Hz or less.

 

[Paul Boucher]

Speaker efficiency rated in dB/watt will outperform almost any inefficient, high powered amp speaker combo, because amps have to double the power output for each dB the speaker efficiency is rated at.
I am not up on modern car audio equipment, but the rule of efficiency is constant.

So true! Most people don't have any clue about this and just look for the huge Watt rating and think it's going to be loud and sound great. But a lot of the times, that's not the case.

Like I said before I had a system that was rated at only 150 watts that would hang with most 2000 watt systems now a days. Those Cerwin Vegas were rated at 94dbs. You almost can't even find that now. Most speakers now are in the mid 80s and not very efficient therefor need the huge amps to push them.

That's why I used JBL in my last system and would probably go that route (JBL/Infinity) if I were to do it again. Those or probably Focal. Both put out excellent sound and have very high DB ratings.

Then you can also get in to the material of the speaker, like paper, micca, silk, titanium, etc. and open an whole other can of worms.

 

[moparmarks]

Start here:
sensitivity: 96 dB at 2.83 volts
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-NlTd0MB5ysB/shopsearch/jbl_car_speaker.html?XVINQ=GW1&XVVer=2UH&awcp=1t1&awcr=309960050284&awdv=m&awkw=jbl car speakers&awmt=e&awnw=g&awug=9025216&gclid=Cj0KCQiAxfzvBRCZARIsAGA7YMw39Opc1hR2ycpLK-4Wgq-T7H3F5DAgBOerYjDTsxrKXpJeqOXwUh0aAs3UEALw_wcB&pg=2
The higher this number, the less power required to achieve volume.
For each dB the number drops, you have to double power output to achieve the same volume.
For example, if the speaker is rated at 96dB/1w/1m that means it puts out 96dB with 1 watt of power, mic 1 meter away.
If a speaker is rated at 92dB, 93=2w, 94=4w, 95=8w, 96=16w so it takes 16 watts to drive a 92dB efficiency speaker to the same volume as 1 watt in a 96dB speaker. Take that a couple of more dB up in volume, 97dB is 32w for the 92dB speaker, 2w for the 96. 98dB is 64w, vs 4w. 99dB is 128w vs 8, and by 100db the 92 is pulling 256w vs 16w.
My home speakers range from 98 to 102dB w/m.
You should hear them at 200wpc, and it's worth noting that I use a powered subwoofer, so in a car, if you have a stand alone powered subwoofer, you can crossover the bass to the sub, which means more power available to and more efficient use of your smaller speakers when they don't have to try to reproduce deep bass, say 40Hz or less.

Wow, thats above my pay scale.

 

[rumblefish360]

Kern,

I last used and am very happy with my Infinity Kappa’s, the higher powered Infinity line. I my Magnum, the rear deck is a 5X7, the doors are 6 inch rounds (IIRC) and I have a Pioneer 10 inch sub that I built a custom ported box for. This system, as well as any system I my book needs an amp. They can get expensive if you do a speaker set up like I have in a all in one amp, 4+1 channel w/high power.

This was not the case with me as the system grew and amps were donated by friends as the system became larger. I ended up with a JBL amp powering the sub @ a max of 250 watts, a Pioneer amp powering the rear deck @ 180 X 2, the fronts were powered by a Kenwood @ 90 X 2. All watts listed are maximum and nominal ratings should be used to match the nominal speaker ratings as close as possible but never under.

Like an engine, it’s better to have more power and not use it that not having enough power and wishing you had it because under performance of anything truly sucks!

The only thing that sucks about my set up is the wiring associated with the 3 amps. Upgrade your alternator to a higher amp unit.

My 2007 Ram has the stock Infiniti 7 speaker system and works quite well. Our '15 Challenger has a mid level sound system and is decent but not quite as good as the truck. Both do have a decent midrange tone to them.
My '70 Charger has a traditional Kenwood AM/FM CD player with 2 6X9s in the rear deck and 4" speakers in the lower front kick panels. The sound is not very good. Newer cars seem to have a fuller sound. My Charger sounds tinny and hollow. I do have sound deadener under the carpet. For awhile, I had a home made box under the speakers but it seems to sound about the same without it.
I put this stereo in several years ago and while it is much better than the AM radio and a single speaker in the dash, it is still not that good. I don't need window shaking bass. I just want a decent setup to enhance the driving experience.
I don't know what brands are good nowadays. Years ago I remember people with Clarion, Sony, JVC, Pioneer and Kenwood speakers but today, I am not familiar with what people are using.
I wish that I could test some speakers without feeling like a jerk for returning the ones I don't like.
What are you happy with?

 

[biomedtechguy]

. I remember back in the 70-80's Mcintosh amps were about as good as it gets. How are they today?

Still some of the best.
Here are a couple of my favorite amp brands:
Adcom: https://www.adcom.com/
Emotiva: https://emotiva.com/collections/all
I use Sony ES amps and a surround receiver, selected from my past experience in home audio, none of them newer than 2005, all weigh over 60 pounds and are made in Japan.
I'm going to leave this thread, because I'll drag it away from car audio.
Back "in the day" my car rocked w/Pioneer LTD series head unit, amps, passive EQ, and Cerwin Vega 6x9s on the package shelf, and EPI speakers in the doors.
The rear glass of my 79 R/T made the 6x9s shake the rear view mirror! It really projected the sound forward.

 

[Paul Boucher]

Bet your house sounds awesome. I remember back in the 70-80's Mcintosh amps were about as good as it gets. How are they today?
I still have a set of Polk Audios that I bought in the 80's. They were some of the first digital ready speakers on the market at the time.

McIntosh are still in the tops for sure. I have always had Integra's or Onkyo's over the years. Really like the sound and features. Also really like the Burr Brown DACs that were used. That is also why I used Kenwood Heads in my cars. I have my system now running off of 3 Onkyo RZ620's and one Onkyo 717NR for the garage, oh yeah and an old Integra for the shop. I have them networked where I can play the same music in the entire house. It is amazing! I really looked at the McIntosh for my house now, but could get them to network the way I wanted.

I love Polks as well. I have them in my shop and garage, and a Polk sub in the main living room. Felt they were really smooth musically. That is why I decided to go with the Sonance over Klipsch. The Klipsch sound great on movies, but felt they were a little bright for music. Horn Tweeter vs Silk dome.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Wow, thats above my pay scale.

They start at $69/pair...

 

[coronet68mx]

Just remember there's another Joe's page for this topic:
https://www.caraudiotalk.com/audio-forum/

 

[moparmarks]

They start at $69/pair...

No, I mean all your math.

 

[Paul Boucher]

Just remember there's another Joe's page for this topic:
https://www.caraudiotalk.com/audio-forum/

Nice, thanks for the link! It has been a while, so I might have to check that out.

 

[BSB67]

Start here:
sensitivity: 96 dB at 2.83 volts
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-NlTd0MB5ysB/shopsearch/jbl_car_speaker.html?XVINQ=GW1&XVVer=2UH&awcp=1t1&awcr=309960050284&awdv=m&awkw=jbl car speakers&awmt=e&awnw=g&awug=9025216&gclid=Cj0KCQiAxfzvBRCZARIsAGA7YMw39Opc1hR2ycpLK-4Wgq-T7H3F5DAgBOerYjDTsxrKXpJeqOXwUh0aAs3UEALw_wcB&pg=2
The higher this number, the less power required to achieve volume.
For each dB the number drops, you have to double power output to achieve the same volume.
For example, if the speaker is rated at 96dB/1w/1m that means it puts out 96dB with 1 watt of power, mic 1 meter away.
If a speaker is rated at 92dB, 93=2w, 94=4w, 95=8w, 96=16w so it takes 16 watts to drive a 92dB efficiency speaker to the same volume as 1 watt in a 96dB speaker. Take that a couple of more dB up in volume, 97dB is 32w for the 92dB speaker, 2w for the 96. 98dB is 64w, vs 4w. 99dB is 128w vs 8, and by 100db the 92 is pulling 256w vs 16w.
My home speakers range from 98 to 102dB w/m.
You should hear them at 200wpc, and it's worth noting that I use a powered subwoofer, so in a car, if you have a stand alone powered subwoofer, you can crossover the bass to the sub, which means more power available to and more efficient use of your smaller speakers when they don't have to try to reproduce deep bass, say 40Hz or less.

Thanks. Probably a call to Crutchfield is the next step.

 

[BSB67]

So these speakers sound like crap with my head unit. Sounds like the head unit is maybe the problem?

 

[moparmarks]

Whats the Ohm rating of your head unit?

 

[Paul Boucher]

So these speakers sound like crap with my head unit. Sounds like the head unit is maybe the problem?

View attachment 884288

What head unit do you have? One, they are probably under powered, and two they are 2.7 (just say 3) ohm speakers. Most head units are only 4 ohm capable, so that is an issue there and you could have burned up your head unit. You would need an amplifier capable of 3 ohm operation and 100 watts RMS to operate those speakers correctly. Given that, they should sound pretty good. Also, what vehicle and location in the vehicle did you have them?

 

[biomedtechguy]

So these speakers sound like crap with my head unit. Sounds like the head unit is maybe the problem?

View attachment 884288

100WPC RMS(RootMeanSquare) 200 peak. 94dB efficiency. Think about the formula I wrote. W/these speakers:
94dB/1w 95=2w 96=4w 97=8w 98=16 99=32 100=64 101=128w and 102dB is 56 watts OVER the peak (momentary) power handling capability.
To get an idea of how "loud" dB (decibel) are, look at this chart:

 

[biomedtechguy]

What head unit do you have? One, they are probably under powered, and two they are 2.7 (just say 3) ohm speakers. Most head units are only 4 ohm capable, so that is an issue there and you could have burned up your head unit. You would need an amplifier capable of 3 ohm operation and 100 watts RMS to operate those speakers correctly. Given that, they should sound pretty good. Also, what vehicle and location in the vehicle did you have them?

I didn't even notice or comment on resistance...
Most car audio speakers are 4 Ohm, some subwoofer speakers are 2 Ohm so they can be wired in series for 4 Ohm total R w/2x 2 Ohm in series. OTOH in parallel, 2x 4 Ohm is 2 Ohm total, and 2x 2 Ohm in parallel is a VERY hard to power 1 Ohm (almost no resistance).
I have Tactile Transducers (ButtKickers) on the seats in my Theater Room. They are 4 Ohm drivers, and I have a 4 Ohm amp. I have 4 on the front 3 seats (1 Left, 1 Right, and 2 on "big daddy's" seat...) and 1 on each seat in the back row.
So things get interesting when you have 4 x 4 Ohm speakers and need to maintain a 4 Ohm load, with only 1 speaker output per 4 transducers. I wired them in "series+parallel" so 2x4 Ohm in parallel is 2 Ohms and then 2x2 Ohm (pairs) in series gets me back to 4 Ohms.
I love home audio and video, it started with my grandfather and dad, and car audio for me, then 1990 to 2009 as a professional Home Theater Designer and Installer. I had my own business, and have 2 theater rooms that were PUBLISHED in a magazine.

 

[Paul Boucher]

I didn't even notice or comment on resistance...
Most car audio speakers are 4 Ohm, some subwoofer speakers are 2 Ohm so they can be wired in series for 4 Ohm total R w/2x 2 Ohm in series. OTOH in parallel, 2x 4 Ohm is 2 Ohm total, and 2x 2 Ohm in parallel is a VERY hard to power 1 Ohm (almost no resistance).
I have Tactile Transducers (ButtKickers) on the seats in my Theater Room. They are 4 Ohm drivers, and I have a 4 Ohm amp. I have 4 on the front 3 seats (1 Left, 1 Right, and 2 on "big daddy's" seat...) and 1 on each seat in the back row.
So things get interesting when you have 4 x 4 Ohm speakers and need to maintain a 4 Ohm load, with only 1 speaker output per 4 transducers. I wired them in "series+parallel" so 2x4 Ohm in parallel is 2 Ohms and then 2x2 Ohm (pairs) in series gets me back to 4 Ohms.
I love home audio and video, it started with my grandfather and dad, and car audio for me, then 1990 to 2009 as a professional Home Theater Designer and Installer. I had my own business, and have 2 theater rooms that were PUBLISHED in a magazine.

Yeah, add ohms to the mix and then you really start to loose people, ha!

That's really cool on the home theaters. Would love to see them; if you have copies, post them up.

I had a few auto audio projects I worked on in the late 90s that were used in the companies marketing material. One of the coolest was the 24k gold plated Soundstream Davinici Amp installed in a BMW. That was one cool amp!

 

[BSB67]

What head unit do you have? One, they are probably under powered, and two they are 2.7 (just say 3) ohm speakers. Most head units are only 4 ohm capable, so that is an issue there and you could have burned up your head unit. You would need an amplifier capable of 3 ohm operation and 100 watts RMS to operate those speakers correctly. Given that, they should sound pretty good. Also, what vehicle and location in the vehicle did you have them?

JBL MR-22
4 x 45w
4-8 Ohm

If it (the JBL head unit and the PA MM651 speakers) sounded half a good as my 2009 Ram truck's factory unit/speakers at talking level, I'd be happy. But sounds like total crap a normal listening levels at 1 meter distance.

 

[biomedtechguy]

That's really cool on the home theaters. Would love to see them; if you have copies, post them up.

I have a framed copy of the article on my room, and I still have a copy of the magazine that the client's room was in, but it is too revealing of personal information to put on a forum.